occam's Transposal -- (4 notes, 3 notes) (4,4,3,3)

[HenHanna]

Are you sleeping?
Are you sleeping?
Brother John
Brother John
Morning bells are ringing
Morning bells are ringing
Ding, ding, dong
Ding, ding, dong

Huh, I’d forgotten there were English words to « Frère Jacques ».

Yes, as there are translations in many other languages.
None of them start with 'are you sleeping?'. Your erratic source has the
third and fourth lines transposed with the first two lines. You can put
that down to the fact that the clucking Hen is a bit of a ding-dong
himself. (Hint, the song is called "Frère Jacques".)

is occam saying it's like this?

Brother John
Brother John
Are you sleeping? ----------- (So hard to sing this way!)
Are you sleeping? ----------- (So hard to sing this way!)

The melody has (4 notes, 3 notes) (4 4 3 (Qrest) 3 (Qrest)) so it
seems more natural as i have it (above).


______________________________

Frère Jacques (2)
Dormez-vous? (3)
Sonnez les matines (5) ------- (6 notes) (6 syllables in English)
Ding, dang, dong (3)

_____________________________


Au clair de la lune,
Mon ami Pierrot,
Prête-moi ta plume
Pour écrire un mot.

Ma chandelle est morte,
Je n'ai plus de feu.
Ouvre-moi ta porte,
Pour l'amour de Dieu.

[Ed Cryer]

Post by HenHanna

  > Are you sleeping?
  > Are you sleeping?
  > Brother John
  > Brother John
  > Morning bells are ringing
  > Morning bells are ringing
  > Ding, ding, dong
  > Ding, ding, dong
Huh, I’d forgotten there were English words to « Frère Jacques ».

Yes, as there are translations in many other languages.
None of them start with 'are you sleeping?'. Your erratic source has the
third and fourth lines transposed with the first two lines. You can put
that down to the fact that the clucking Hen is a bit of a ding-dong
himself. (Hint, the song is called "Frère Jacques".)

is occam saying it's like this?

  > Brother John
  > Brother John
  > Are you sleeping?   ----------- (So hard to sing this way!)
  > Are you sleeping?   ----------- (So hard to sing this way!)

The melody has   (4 notes, 3 notes)  (4 4 3 (Qrest) 3 (Qrest))  so it
seems more natural as i have it (above).
______________________________
Frère Jacques (2)
Dormez-vous? (3)
Sonnez les matines (5)  ------- (6 notes) (6 syllables in English)
Ding, dang, dong (3)
_____________________________
Au clair de la lune,
Mon ami Pierrot,
Prête-moi ta plume
Pour écrire un mot.
Ma chandelle est morte,
Je n'ai plus de feu.
Ouvre-moi ta porte,
Pour l'amour de Dieu.

That's better.
Where did you get them?
Your usual truth-serve

[Ed Cryer]

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by HenHanna

  > Are you sleeping?
  > Are you sleeping?
  > Brother John
  > Brother John
  > Morning bells are ringing
  > Morning bells are ringing
  > Ding, ding, dong
  > Ding, ding, dong
Huh, I’d forgotten there were English words to « Frère Jacques ».

Yes, as there are translations in many other languages.
None of them start with 'are you sleeping?'. Your erratic source has the
third and fourth lines transposed with the first two lines. You can put
that down to the fact that the clucking Hen is a bit of a ding-dong
himself. (Hint, the song is called "Frère Jacques".)

is occam saying it's like this?

  > Brother John
  > Brother John
  > Are you sleeping?   ----------- (So hard to sing this way!)
  > Are you sleeping?   ----------- (So hard to sing this way!)

The melody has   (4 notes, 3 notes)  (4 4 3 (Qrest) 3 (Qrest))  so it
seems more natural as i have it (above).
______________________________
Frère Jacques (2)
Dormez-vous? (3)
Sonnez les matines (5)  ------- (6 notes) (6 syllables in English)
Ding, dang, dong (3)
_____________________________
Au clair de la lune,
Mon ami Pierrot,
Prête-moi ta plume
Pour écrire un mot.
Ma chandelle est morte,
Je n'ai plus de feu.
Ouvre-moi ta porte,
Pour l'amour de Dieu.

That's better.
Where did you get them?
Your usual truth-server?
Ed

The monks and friars had to get up and pray for the world. If they
didn't do it properly and regularly, then God might dismiss us all.

Get up, ring the bells, gather in morning prayers, pray.
And then the poor peasants could till the fields in safety; safe from
some thunderbolt come hurtling down fr

[Ed Cryer]

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by HenHanna

  > Are you sleeping?
  > Are you sleeping?
  > Brother John
  > Brother John
  > Morning bells are ringing
  > Morning bells are ringing
  > Ding, ding, dong
  > Ding, ding, dong
Huh, I’d forgotten there were English words to « Frère Jacques ».

Yes, as there are translations in many other languages.
None of them start with 'are you sleeping?'. Your erratic source has the
third and fourth lines transposed with the first two lines. You can put
that down to the fact that the clucking Hen is a bit of a ding-dong
himself. (Hint, the song is called "Frère Jacques".)

is occam saying it's like this?

  > Brother John
  > Brother John
  > Are you sleeping?   ----------- (So hard to sing this way!)
  > Are you sleeping?   ----------- (So hard to sing this way!)

The melody has   (4 notes, 3 notes)  (4 4 3 (Qrest) 3 (Qrest))  so it
seems more natural as i have it (above).
______________________________
Frère Jacques (2)
Dormez-vous? (3)
Sonnez les matines (5)  ------- (6 notes) (6 syllables in English)
Ding, dang, dong (3)
_____________________________
Au clair de la lune,
Mon ami Pierrot,
Prête-moi ta plume
Pour écrire un mot.
Ma chandelle est morte,
Je n'ai plus de feu.
Ouvre-moi ta porte,
Pour l'amour de Dieu.

That's better.
Where did you get them?
Your usual truth-server?
Ed

http://youtu.be/BC6rvbxdywg
The monks and friars had to get up and pray for the world. If they
didn't do it properly and regularly, then God might dismiss us all.
Get up, ring the bells, gather in morning prayers, pray.
And then the poor peasants could till the fields in safety; safe from
some thunderbolt come hurtling down from heaven onto them.
Ed

There are many children's rhymes that have a very serious provenance.
They are fundamentally satire.
The Grand Old Duke of York.
Ring a ring a roses.
Marlborough s'en va-t-en guerre.

When you play with these, you take them away from their historical
meaning, and transmute them into something local. And, to me, that just
depletes

[Ed Cryer]

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by Ed Cryer

Post by HenHanna

  > Are you sleeping?
  > Are you sleeping?
  > Brother John
  > Brother John
  > Morning bells are ringing
  > Morning bells are ringing
  > Ding, ding, dong
  > Ding, ding, dong
Huh, I’d forgotten there were English words to « Frère Jacques ».

Yes, as there are translations in many other languages.
None of them start with 'are you sleeping?'. Your erratic source has the
third and fourth lines transposed with the first two lines. You can put
that down to the fact that the clucking Hen is a bit of a ding-dong
himself. (Hint, the song is called "Frère Jacques".)

is occam saying it's like this?

  > Brother John
  > Brother John
  > Are you sleeping?   ----------- (So hard to sing this way!)
  > Are you sleeping?   ----------- (So hard to sing this way!)

The melody has   (4 notes, 3 notes)  (4 4 3 (Qrest) 3 (Qrest))  so it
seems more natural as i have it (above).
______________________________
Frère Jacques (2)
Dormez-vous? (3)
Sonnez les matines (5)  ------- (6 notes) (6 syllables in English)
Ding, dang, dong (3)
_____________________________
Au clair de la lune,
Mon ami Pierrot,
Prête-moi ta plume
Pour écrire un mot.
Ma chandelle est morte,
Je n'ai plus de feu.
Ouvre-moi ta porte,
Pour l'amour de Dieu.

That's better.
Where did you get them?
Your usual truth-server?
Ed

http://youtu.be/BC6rvbxdywg
The monks and friars had to get up and pray for the world. If they
didn't do it properly and regularly, then God might dismiss us all.
Get up, ring the bells, gather in morning prayers, pray.
And then the poor peasants could till the fields in safety; safe from
some thunderbolt come hurtling down from heaven onto them.
Ed

There are many children's rhymes that have a very serious provenance.
They are fundamentally satire.
The Grand Old Duke of York.
Ring a ring a roses.
Marlborough s'en va-t-en guerre.
When you play with these, you take them away from their historical
meaning, and transmute them into something local. And, to me, that just
depletes them of their juice.
Ed

I'll give you an example.

London's burning, London's burning.
Fetch the engines, fetch the engines.
Fire fire, Fire Fire!
Pour on water, pour on water.

How does that resonate in your experience? What images does it conjure
up for you? What feelings?
I hope it's more than just sitting around in some junior school hall,
kids singing a nice tune.

If that's how you envisage it, then stop cross-posting to our Latin NG.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Ed Cryer
London's burning, London's burning.
Fetch the engines, fetch the engines.
Fire fire, Fire Fire!
Pour on water, pour on water.
How does that resonate in your experience? What images does it conjure
up for you? What feelings?
I hope it's more than just sitting around in some junior school hall,
kids singing a nice tune.
If that's how you envisage it, then stop cross-posting to our Latin NG.
We look deeper than that.

I imagine that HenHanna is posting to alt.language.latin because he's
been plonked in the other mentioned newsgroups. It's best to ignore him.
After a while he'll find another group to pester.