Discussion:
OED Historical Thesaurus published (22/10/2009)
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Ross Clark
2024-10-22 10:08:40 UTC
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Roget gives us the present day English vocabulary arranged by semantic
fields. You start with a word, look up its semantic category (a nested
hierarchy with labels like "1.2.23.14"), look that up and you will find
your word together with all its near-synonyms or closely related (by
meaning) words. The classic task for Roget is "I want a word that means
something like 'insist', but a little different..." or "I don't want to
keep on using 'insist' -- how about a word that means roughly the same,
for variety?"

The OED Historical Thesaurus adds a historical dimension to this.
Starting in the same way, you find a semantic point or field you're
interested in, and it gives you all the words that have been used there,
right back to Old English. You can see how the vocabulary for that
particular area has changed over the centuries.

I have to admit: I bought myself a copy of OEDHT a couple of years ago,
on impulse, for probably more money than was wise. It's two great hefty
volumes, and it's on my bookshelf now, but I have used it very little.
I'm not at home with the semantic categories, and the historical
information is extremely compressed, in small print with numerous
abbreviations. Maybe I just need an online tutorial in how to use it.
Actually the whole thing is available online, alongside OED Online,
which I use all the time; but if I learned to use the online thesaurus,
I would realize I had wasted my money on the hard copy....

The sort of question which I have occasionally thought OEDHT might be
able to answer is: I'm thinking about a modern English word which seems
pretty basic, but I know it only goes back to the 17th century, or to
Middle English. The concept is not new, so what words did they have for
it before the one we know today?

Crystal says it's the first historical thesaurus for any language. The
idea was suggested to the Philological Society by Michael Samuels in
1965, and 44 years later, there it was.
Stefan Ram
2024-10-22 15:34:32 UTC
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Post by Ross Clark
Roget gives us the present day English vocabulary arranged by semantic
fields. You start with a word, look up its semantic category (a nested
hierarchy with labels like "1.2.23.14"), look that up and you will find
your word together with all its near-synonyms or closely related (by
meaning) words. The classic task for Roget is "I want a word that means
something like 'insist', but a little different..." or "I don't want to
keep on using 'insist' -- how about a word that means roughly the same,
for variety?"
Here in Berlin, we call those kinds of dictionaries for
German "dictionary of synonyms" when they list words along
with their synonyms.

In California, from what I can tell, folks usually call this
kind of thing a "thesaurus." The word exists in German too,
but it's not used as often in this context.

On top of that, we've got dictionaries that organize the German
vocabulary by "by meaning groups", basically grouping words by
how closely related their meanings are. (That kind of thing would
probably be called a "thesaurus" in the Golden State too.)

I'm not hip to anything like that specifically for older forms
of German, but you might be able to get somewhere by doing
a full-text search in dictionaries from those earlier periods
as a workaround. Or you could always pick the brain of a chatbot!

User:
|I don't want to keep on using "insist" – how about a word
|that means roughly the same, for variety?

Chatbot:
|Here are some synonyms for "insist" that you can use for
|variety:
. . .

User:
|What did people use in older states of the English language
|to say "insist"?

Chatbot:
. . .
|Astandan - to stand firm, persist
|Geornlice biddan - to earnestly request or demand
. . .
Christian Weisgerber
2024-10-26 17:50:07 UTC
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Post by Ross Clark
Crystal says it's the first historical thesaurus for any language.
Anybody know one in any other language?
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
HenHanna
2024-10-27 20:48:41 UTC
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Is there a Historical Thesaurus (published) in any other language?


Yes, there are several historical thesauri published in various
languages. Here are a few notable examples:

1. Thesaurus Linguae Graecae (TLG)

Language: Ancient Greek

Description: A comprehensive database that catalogs Greek literature
from antiquity to the Byzantine period, organized by themes and
concepts.


2. Deutsches Wörterbuch

Language: German

Description: Created by the Brothers Grimm, this historical dictionary
also functions as a thesaurus by providing synonyms and exploring the
evolution of German words.


3. Dictionnaire historique de la langue française

Language: French

Description: A historical dictionary that includes synonyms and
variations of French words throughout history.


4. Diccionario de la lengua española (DLE)

Language: Spanish

Description: While primarily a dictionary, it includes etymological
information and synonyms, serving as a resource for understanding
historical usage.


5. Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache

Language: German

Description: This historical dictionary includes information on the
usage and evolution of German words, often providing synonyms and
related terms.


___________________________________

Example

Category: Nature
Subcategory: Plants

_________________________Word: "Tree"

Old English: "treow" (used in early medieval texts)

Middle English: "tre" (seen in literature from the 12th century)

Modern Usage: "tree" (current usage)

Synonyms:
"Sapling" (young tree)
"Timber" (wood from trees, mainly used in construction)



_____________________Word: "Flower"

Old English: "blōwre" (mentioned in texts from the 9th century)

Middle English: "flour" (common in poetry from the 14th century)

Modern Usage: "flower" (still in use)

Synonyms:
"Blossom" (refers to the flowering part of a plant)
"Floret" (small flower or cluster of flowers)
Christian Weisgerber
2024-10-28 16:11:44 UTC
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Post by HenHanna
Is there a Historical Thesaurus (published) in any other language?
Yes, there are several historical thesauri published in various
Sounds like a response from ChatGPT.
Post by HenHanna
1. Thesaurus Linguae Graecae (TLG)
2. Deutsches Wörterbuch
3. Dictionnaire historique de la langue française
4. Diccionario de la lengua española (DLE)
5. Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache
Nonsense. None of those are anything like the OED Historical
Thesaurus.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
HenHanna
2024-10-28 22:42:42 UTC
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Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by HenHanna
Is there a Historical Thesaurus (published) in any other language?
Yes, there are several historical thesauri published in various
Sounds like a response from ChatGPT.
Post by HenHanna
1. Thesaurus Linguae Graecae (TLG)
2. Deutsches Wörterbuch
3. Dictionnaire historique de la langue française
4. Diccionario de la lengua española (DLE)
5. Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache
Nonsense. None of those are anything like the OED Historical
Thesaurus.
thank you ... my AI-assistant is usu. very good...


Sometimes, 1 out of 5 things it tells me is bogus, but
here it seems all 5 were bogus.


__________

1970's Hackers liked the noun [Bogosity] -- it that a real
noun?
it must be... because i'm not seeing the Red squiggles.

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