Origin of "capitalist pigdogs"?

[Nan Wang]

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going by the pigdog part I
guess it comes from German?

[John Swindle]

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going by the pigdog part I
guess it comes from German?

What's it mean? Where'd you find it?

My guess would be that it's American and intended to sound foreign
and evil by reference to "Schweinhund", a German word sometimes
used by speakers of English and Nordic languages for that purpose.
Others are free to make more imaginative guesses or to provide
actual facts, perhaps gleaned from an actual usage dictionary, which,
alas, I do not possess.

Google web and groups searches suggest that "capitalist pigdog" and
"capitalist pig dog" do occur, if rarely, on the web and slightly more
often in newsgroups devoted to fantasy games, but that doesn't tell
me what the terms mean or whether those groups were where they
originated.

[benlizross]

Post by John Swindle

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going by the pigdog part I
guess it comes from German?

What's it mean? Where'd you find it?
My guess would be that it's American and intended to sound foreign
and evil by reference to "Schweinhund", a German word sometimes
used by speakers of English and Nordic languages for that purpose.
Others are free to make more imaginative guesses or to provide
actual facts, perhaps gleaned from an actual usage dictionary, which,
alas, I do not possess.
Google web and groups searches suggest that "capitalist pigdog" and
"capitalist pig dog" do occur, if rarely, on the web and slightly more
often in newsgroups devoted to fantasy games, but that doesn't tell
me what the terms mean or whether those groups were where they
originated.

pig dogs are respected in new zealand. bred for hunting wild pigs in the
bush, they are strong and fearless. perhaps they could be good
capitalists too?

http://www.freerangehuntingnz.com/pigphotos4.html

[Reinhold (Rey) Aman]

John Swindle kirjoitti:

[...]

Post by John Swindle
My guess would be that it's American and intended to sound
foreign and evil by reference to "Schweinhund"

"Schweinehund" in German.
^

Post by John Swindle
a German word sometimes used by speakers of English
and Nordic languages for that purpose.

[Peter Dy]

Post by John Swindle

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going by the pigdog part I
guess it comes from German?

What's it mean? Where'd you find it?
My guess would be that it's American and intended to sound foreign
and evil by reference to "Schweinhund"

It's "Schweinehund."

Peter

[John Swindle]

Post by Peter Dy

Post by John Swindle

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going by the pigdog part I
guess it comes from German?

What's it mean? Where'd you find it?
My guess would be that it's American and intended to sound foreign
and evil by reference to "Schweinhund"

It's "Schweinehund."

Thanks to Reinhold and Peter for that correction. I had indeed
confused German "Schweinehund" with faux-German "schweinhund".
It was the latter that I was suggesting as possibly part of the source
for a term like "capitalist pigdog".

[Torsten Poulin]

Post by John Swindle
My guess would be that it's American and intended to sound foreign
and evil by reference to "Schweinhund", a German word sometimes
used by speakers of English and Nordic languages for that purpose.

(Schweinehund)

In Danish, <svinehund> seems to be the common form. Often as <den
indre svinehund> 'the inner pigdog'.

[Peter Dy]

Post by Torsten Poulin

Post by John Swindle
My guess would be that it's American and intended to sound foreign
and evil by reference to "Schweinhund", a German word sometimes
used by speakers of English and Nordic languages for that purpose.

(Schweinehund)
In Danish, <svinehund> seems to be the common form. Often as <den
indre svinehund> 'the inner pigdog'.

According to Wahrig, same in German: "seinen inneren Schweinehund
überwinden."

Peter

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by John Swindle

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going by the pigdog part I
guess it comes from German?

What's it mean? Where'd you find it?

Looks like a (nonexistent) conflation of "running dog" and "capitalist
pig." OP appears to be Chinese; both were familiar to us from Red
Chinese propaganda back in the days of Red China.

Post by John Swindle
My guess would be that it's American and intended to sound foreign
and evil by reference to "Schweinhund", a German word sometimes
used by speakers of English and Nordic languages for that purpose.
Others are free to make more imaginative guesses or to provide
actual facts, perhaps gleaned from an actual usage dictionary, which,
alas, I do not possess.
Google web and groups searches suggest that "capitalist pigdog" and
"capitalist pig dog" do occur, if rarely, on the web and slightly more
often in newsgroups devoted to fantasy games, but that doesn't tell
me what the terms mean or whether those groups were where they
originated.

[Peter Dy]

Post by Peter T. Daniels

Post by John Swindle

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going by the pigdog part I
guess it comes from German?

What's it mean? Where'd you find it?

Looks like a (nonexistent) conflation of "running dog" and "capitalist
pig." OP appears to be Chinese; both were familiar to us from Red
Chinese propaganda back in the days of Red China.

Propaganda? In Bush's America, we call that "values."

Peter

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Peter Dy

Post by Peter T. Daniels

Post by John Swindle

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going by the pigdog part I
guess it comes from German?

What's it mean? Where'd you find it?

Looks like a (nonexistent) conflation of "running dog" and "capitalist
pig." OP appears to be Chinese; both were familiar to us from Red
Chinese propaganda back in the days of Red China.

Propaganda? In Bush's America, we call that "values."

Imagine if Bush had been in charge in 1972.

He practically started a nucular war when the US plane had to land in
Chinese territory in 01 -- in an interview he said he'd take "any means
necessary" to rescue and didn't rescind it when the interviewer gave him
a chance.

[Nan Wang]

Post by Peter T. Daniels

Post by John Swindle

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going by the pigdog part I
guess it comes from German?

What's it mean? Where'd you find it?

Looks like a (nonexistent) conflation of "running dog" and "capitalist
pig." OP appears to be Chinese; both were familiar to us from Red
Chinese propaganda back in the days of Red China.

You are right with me being Chinese, but I have never heard the expression
in Chinese.

[John Swindle]

Post by Nan Wang

Post by Peter T. Daniels

Post by John Swindle

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going by the pigdog part I
guess it comes from German?

What's it mean? Where'd you find it?

Looks like a (nonexistent) conflation of "running dog" and "capitalist
pig." OP appears to be Chinese; both were familiar to us from Red
Chinese propaganda back in the days of Red China.

You are right with me being Chinese, but I have never heard the expression
in Chinese.

I don't know where "capitalist pig" comes from, but "zou gou"
("lackey") was translated into English as "running dog" in
publications from China during the Cultural Revolution.
Although the reference was normally to those who collaborate
with empire, the connection with capitalism was clearly implied.
In America we thought of "running dogs" in terms of Chinese
criticism of capitalism.

[Nan Wang]

Post by John Swindle
I don't know where "capitalist pig" comes from, but "zou gou"
("lackey") was translated into English as "running dog" in
publications from China during the Cultural Revolution.
Although the reference was normally to those who collaborate
with empire, the connection with capitalism was clearly implied.
In America we thought of "running dogs" in terms of Chinese
criticism of capitalism.

I mean I never heard of the Chinese equivalent of "pigdog", but I have heard
of "running dog".

[Nan Wang]

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going by the pigdog part I
guess it comes from German?

Someone in another newsgroup (which I mistakenly posted this question to
first) mentioned that "capitalist pigdog" appeared in a Monty Python episode
where Michael Palin bicycled to the USSR.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Nan Wang

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going by the pigdog part I
guess it comes from German?

Someone in another newsgroup (which I mistakenly posted this question to
first) mentioned that "capitalist pigdog" appeared in a Monty Python episode
where Michael Palin bicycled to the USSR.

That makes it very likely that it's a calque of schweinhund (probably
not of Schweinehund).

[John Swindle]

Post by Nan Wang

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going by the pigdog part I
guess it comes from German?

Someone in another newsgroup (which I mistakenly posted this question to
first) mentioned that "capitalist pigdog" appeared in a Monty Python episode
where Michael Palin bicycled to the USSR.

Monty Python! Wonderful! That not only explains the origin of
the term but even somehow redeems it.

[Reinhold (Rey) Aman]

Post by John Swindle

Post by Nan Wang

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going
by the pigdog part I guess it comes from German?

Someone in another newsgroup (which I mistakenly posted this question
to first) mentioned that "capitalist pigdog" appeared in a Monty Python
episode where Michael Palin bicycled to the USSR.

Wrong. Jim Vieira in <comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic> is full of
beans. Nice newsgroup to post a language question to.

Post by John Swindle
Monty Python! Wonderful! That not only explains the
origin of the term but even somehow redeems it.

Mr. Vieira is wrong and quite confused, to wit:

I have the complete text of all M.P. sketches and searched the 45
half-hour shows for "pigdog," "pig dog," "pig," "dog," and "capitalist."
"Capitalist pigdog" and "pigdog" are not used in any sketch.

To be certain, I reread the entire episode #34, "The Cycling Tour" with
Michael Palin as Mr. Pither. No pigdog. So, that "someone in another
newsgroup" is wrong.

What I'm also certain of is this: "pigdog" is used repeatedly in the
1975 film "Monty Python and the Holy Grail." However, those pigdogs
aren't capitalist but English, and you'll probably remember that sassy
French knight in the castle who taunts the English knights with such
insults as "I spit on you, you English pigdog!" -- "You don't frighten
us, English pigdog!" -- "You sons of an English pigdog!" and "You
English pigdog, your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!"

[Richard Herring]

Post by Reinhold (Rey) Aman

Post by Nan Wang

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going
by the pigdog part I guess it comes from German?

Someone in another newsgroup (which I mistakenly posted this question
to first) mentioned that "capitalist pigdog" appeared in a Monty Python
episode where Michael Palin bicycled to the USSR.

Wrong. Jim Vieira in <comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic> is full of
beans.

He's energetic and frisky?

[Reinhold (Rey) Aman]

[...]

Post by Richard Herring

Post by Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Wrong. Jim Vieira in <comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic>
is full of beans.

He's energetic and frisky?

No, he's Sir Fartsalot.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Reinhold (Rey) Aman

Post by John Swindle

Post by Nan Wang

What is the origin of "capitalist pigdogs"? Going
by the pigdog part I guess it comes from German?

Someone in another newsgroup (which I mistakenly posted this question
to first) mentioned that "capitalist pigdog" appeared in a Monty Python
episode where Michael Palin bicycled to the USSR.

Wrong. Jim Vieira in <comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic> is full of
beans. Nice newsgroup to post a language question to.

Post by John Swindle
Monty Python! Wonderful! That not only explains the
origin of the term but even somehow redeems it.

I have the complete text of all M.P. sketches and searched the 45
half-hour shows for "pigdog," "pig dog," "pig," "dog," and "capitalist."
"Capitalist pigdog" and "pigdog" are not used in any sketch.
To be certain, I reread the entire episode #34, "The Cycling Tour" with
Michael Palin as Mr. Pither. No pigdog. So, that "someone in another
newsgroup" is wrong.

Reading the published scripts is not necessarily the same as reviewing
what actually ended up on the screen.

Post by Reinhold (Rey) Aman
What I'm also certain of is this: "pigdog" is used repeatedly in the
1975 film "Monty Python and the Holy Grail." However, those pigdogs
aren't capitalist but English, and you'll probably remember that sassy
French knight in the castle who taunts the English knights with such
insults as "I spit on you, you English pigdog!" -- "You don't frighten
us, English pigdog!" -- "You sons of an English pigdog!" and "You
English pigdog, your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!"

[Reinhold (Rey) Aman]

[...]

Post by Peter T. Daniels

Post by Reinhold (Rey) Aman
I have the complete text of all M.P. sketches and searched the 45
half-hour shows for "pigdog," "pig dog," "pig," "dog," and "capitalist."
"Capitalist pigdog" and "pigdog" are not used in any sketch.
To be certain, I reread the entire episode #34, "The Cycling Tour" with
Michael Palin as Mr. Pither. No pigdog. So, that "someone in another
newsgroup" is wrong.

Reading the published scripts is not necessarily the same as reviewing
what actually ended up on the screen.

I know, Petey, I know. In this case, I have the published script and
the taped show. No changes. (Other sketches were supposedly censored
for prudish U.S. TV.)

[Jacques Guy]

Post by Reinhold (Rey) Aman
I know, Petey, I know. In this case, I have the published script and
the taped show. No changes. (Other sketches were supposedly censored
for prudish U.S. TV.)

I just checked on my DVD. It's in chapter 9. And yes,
the French chap calls Arthur "pigdog" (and then
tells him to go boil his bottom).

[Nan Wang]

Post by Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Wrong. Jim Vieira in <comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic> is full of
beans. Nice newsgroup to post a language question to.

Didn't I write that it was a mistake? And strangely, it was on topic, as
I heard it uttered in one of the games.

Post by Reinhold (Rey) Aman

Post by John Swindle
Monty Python! Wonderful! That not only explains the
origin of the term but even somehow redeems it.

I have the complete text of all M.P. sketches and searched the 45
half-hour shows for "pigdog," "pig dog," "pig," "dog," and "capitalist."
"Capitalist pigdog" and "pigdog" are not used in any sketch.
To be certain, I reread the entire episode #34, "The Cycling Tour" with
Michael Palin as Mr. Pither. No pigdog. So, that "someone in another
newsgroup" is wrong.

Well, thanks for mentioning the episode #, I'll see if I can find it
somewhere.