national lowercase day (14 october)

[Ross Clark]

another day of unknown origin and insubstantial observance
may be (sez crystal) a reaction against use of SHOUTY CASE in digital
communication
anyhow, the subject (of 'bicameral' scripts) is interesting;
see especially the history
old roman cursive (1st century ad) shows the beginnings of some lower
case letter-forms
but bicamerality did not become general in europe until 1300
and took some time to more or less stabilize in english
you probably noticed in the text quoted yesterday from the time of henry
iv, all nouns capitalized (as still in german)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_case#Bicameral_script

[Christian Weisgerber]

Post by Ross Clark
but bicamerality did not become general in europe until 1300
and took some time to more or less stabilize in english
you probably noticed in the text quoted yesterday from the time of henry
iv, all nouns capitalized (as still in german)

In the 19th century, there was a fashion in the German linguistic
literature, I think, to abandon noun capitalization. Notably the
_Deutsches Wörterbuch_ (German Dictionary) started by the Brothers
Grimm stuck to this.

[Ross Clark]

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by Ross Clark
but bicamerality did not become general in europe until 1300
and took some time to more or less stabilize in english
you probably noticed in the text quoted yesterday from the time of henry
iv, all nouns capitalized (as still in german)

In the 19th century, there was a fashion in the German linguistic
literature, I think, to abandon noun capitalization. Notably the
_Deutsches Wörterbuch_ (German Dictionary) started by the Brothers
Grimm stuck to this.

I meant to mention that something like this capitalization practice
persisted in English at least until late in the 18th century. I noticed
it when reading narratives of voyages to the Pacific at that period.
More particularly, it shows up in (carefully transcribed) journals of
voyagers such as Cook. An example from George Robertson at Tahiti, 1767:
----------------------
All the way that we ran allong shore we saw the whole coast full of
Canoes, and the country had the most Beautiful appearance its possible
to Imagin from the shore side one two and three miles Back their is a
fine Leavel country that appears to be all laid out in plantations, and
the regular built Houses seems to be without number, all along the
Coast, they appeard lyke long Farmers Barns and seemd to be all very
neatly thatched, with great Numbers of Cocoa Nut Trees....
----------------

This looks roughly like capitalization of lexical words for emphasis,
rather than on any grammatical basis.

By contrast the published accounts, even when based on journals, seem to
have completely modern usage of capitals.

[Aidan Kehoe]

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by Ross Clark
but bicamerality did not become general in europe until 1300
and took some time to more or less stabilize in english
you probably noticed in the text quoted yesterday from the time of henry
iv, all nouns capitalized (as still in german)

In the 19th century, there was a fashion in the German linguistic
literature, I think, to abandon noun capitalization. Notably the
_Deutsches Wörterbuch_ (German Dictionary) started by the Brothers
Grimm stuck to this.

I meant to mention that something like this capitalization practice persisted
in English at least until late in the 18th century. I noticed it when reading
narratives of voyages to the Pacific at that period. More particularly, it
shows up in (carefully transcribed) journals of voyagers such as Cook. An
----------------------
All the way that we ran allong shore we saw the whole coast full of Canoes, and
the country had the most Beautiful appearance its possible to Imagin from the
shore side one two and three miles Back their is a fine Leavel country that
appears to be all laid out in plantations, and the regular built Houses seems
to be without number, all along the Coast, they appeard lyke long Farmers Barns
and seemd to be all very neatly thatched, with great Numbers of Cocoa Nut
Trees....
----------------
This looks roughly like capitalization of lexical words for emphasis, rather
than on any grammatical basis.

I wonder have any studies been done comparing uneducated German-speakers to
uneducated English-speakers and the skill in determining parts of speech. It
wouldn’t shock me if the English-speakers were worse at it, given less need to
decline nouns and adjectives. I suppose these days it would have to be done on
pre-literate children.

By contrast the published accounts, even when based on journals, seem to have
completely modern usage of capitals.

[Jeff Barnett]

Post by Aidan Kehoe

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Post by Ross Clark
but bicamerality did not become general in europe until 1300
and took some time to more or less stabilize in english
you probably noticed in the text quoted yesterday from the time of henry
iv, all nouns capitalized (as still in german)

In the 19th century, there was a fashion in the German linguistic
literature, I think, to abandon noun capitalization. Notably the
_Deutsches Wörterbuch_ (German Dictionary) started by the Brothers
Grimm stuck to this.

I meant to mention that something like this capitalization practice persisted
in English at least until late in the 18th century. I noticed it when reading
narratives of voyages to the Pacific at that period. More particularly, it
shows up in (carefully transcribed) journals of voyagers such as Cook. An
----------------------
All the way that we ran allong shore we saw the whole coast full of Canoes, and
the country had the most Beautiful appearance its possible to Imagin from the
shore side one two and three miles Back their is a fine Leavel country that
appears to be all laid out in plantations, and the regular built Houses seems
to be without number, all along the Coast, they appeard lyke long Farmers Barns
and seemd to be all very neatly thatched, with great Numbers of Cocoa Nut
Trees....
----------------
This looks roughly like capitalization of lexical words for emphasis, rather
than on any grammatical basis.

I wonder have any studies been done comparing uneducated German-speakers to
uneducated English-speakers and the skill in determining parts of speech. It
wouldn’t shock me if the English-speakers were worse at it, given less need to
decline nouns and adjectives. I suppose these days it would have to be done on
pre-literate children.

Not trying to be snide but, .... There are some questions about how,
when, and if our American children do become literate. I suppose that
many other countries are asking the same sorts of questions about their
youngsters. The electronics and media influences might be even stronger
than those of linguistic differences.

Post by Aidan Kehoe

By contrast the published accounts, even when based on journals, seem to have
completely modern usage of capitals.

--
Jeff Barnett

[Aidan Kehoe]

Post by Aidan Kehoe
I wonder have any studies been done comparing uneducated German-speakers
to uneducated English-speakers and the skill in determining parts of
speech. It wouldn’t shock me if the English-speakers were worse at it,
given less need to decline nouns and adjectives. I suppose these days it
would have to be done on pre-literate children.

Not trying to be snide but, .... There are some questions about how, when,
and if our American children do become literate. I suppose that many other
countries are asking the same sorts of questions about their youngsters. The
electronics and media influences might be even stronger than those of
linguistic differences.

Local experience is that Irish Travellers (who have the lifestyle and social
pathologies of Gypsies, but echt-Irish genetics) were routinely illiterate
until smartphones came along, and now it’s unusual to come across a younger
Irish Traveller who is unable to read and write. A welcome change that has
happened in my lifetime (I’m 43). Was your feeling that literacy has declined?

[Christian Weisgerber]

Post by Ross Clark
I meant to mention that something like this capitalization practice
persisted in English at least until late in the 18th century. [...]
This looks roughly like capitalization of lexical words for emphasis,
rather than on any grammatical basis.

My go-to example is the original text of the United States Declaration
of Independence.

I think I've also seen it in some French texts from that time.
There's probably an archive of revolutionary pamphlets somewhere.

[Tilde]

Post by Ross Clark
another day of unknown origin and insubstantial observance
may be (sez crystal) a reaction against use of SHOUTY CASE in digital
communication
anyhow, the subject (of 'bicameral' scripts) is interesting;
see especially the history
old roman cursive (1st century ad) shows the beginnings of some lower
case letter-forms
but bicamerality did not become general in europe until 1300
and took some time to more or less stabilize in english
you probably noticed in the text quoted yesterday from the time of henry
iv, all nouns capitalized (as still in german)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_case#Bicameral_script

IS THERE A NATIONAL UPPERCASE DAY?