Shaanxi versus Shanxi

[Jarel]

I think the difference in pronunciation in Mandarin is the tone between
Shaanxi and Shanxi. My question is why the "double a" spelling for Shaanxi and
are the two pronounced differently in English?



Jarel

http://www.geocities.com/jjkugadedeaton/index.html

[Jacques Guy]

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[Dominique Kuster]

Post by Jacques Guy

Post by Jarel
I think the difference in pronunciation in Mandarin is the tone between
Shaanxi and Shanxi.

Yes, third tone for one, first for the other.

You can hear them:
shanxi: http://hua.umf.maine.edu/Chinese/Language/Sound9b/9292jz.wav
shaanxi: http://hua.umf.maine.edu/Chinese/Language/Sound10a/10619jz.wav

[John Swindle]

Post by Jacques Guy

Post by Jarel
I think the difference in pronunciation in Mandarin is the tone between
Shaanxi and Shanxi.

Yes, third tone for one, first for the other.

Post by Jarel
My question is why the "double a" spelling for Shaanxi

A kludge. A's which haceks on top are pretty thin on
on the ground of your common English keyboard.

Post by Jarel
and
are the two pronounced differently in English?

Who knows? Since I heard Cixi pronounced as "sexy"
with a New-Zealand accent, I am prepared to hear
"Shay Ann Zee" for "Shaanxi" and "Shaun Zigh" for
"Shanxi".

Or possibly Shauncey and Shanksey. However, some English
speakers pronounce x, z, and zh in Chinese names all alike,
choosing the foreign-sounding "z" in English "azure" in order to
make them sound suitably foreign.

[Sebastian Hew]

Post by Jarel
I think the difference in pronunciation in Mandarin is the tone
between Shaanxi and Shanxi. My question is why the "double a"
spelling for Shaanxi and are the two pronounced differently in
English?

Shaanxi and Shanxi are neighbouring provinces in China, and the double-a
in Shaanxi is used simply to distinguish it from Shanxi. Tone aside,
both have the same pronunciation in Mandarin. (In many other dialects,
the two provinces have distinct pronunciations, e.g., Cantonese: Seemsai
and Saansai.)

Sebastian.

[Nigel Greenwood]

Post by Sebastian Hew
Shaanxi and Shanxi are neighbouring provinces in China, and the double-a
in Shaanxi is used simply to distinguish it from Shanxi. Tone aside,
both have the same pronunciation in Mandarin.

Tone aside, eh? Like "bed" & "bad", which are the same in English
apart from the vowel sound.

Nigel

[LEE Sau Dan]

Post by Sebastian Hew
Shaanxi and Shanxi are neighbouring provinces in China, and the
double-a in Shaanxi is used simply to distinguish it from
Shanxi. Tone aside, both have the same pronunciation in
Mandarin.

Nigel> Tone aside, eh? Like "bed" & "bad", which are the same in
Nigel> English apart from the vowel sound.

Yeah. *Vowel aside*, "bed" and "bad" and "bid" and "bud" have the
same pronunciation in English.

[ordosclan]

Post by Nigel Greenwood

Post by Sebastian Hew
Shaanxi and Shanxi are neighbouring provinces in China, and the double-a
in Shaanxi is used simply to distinguish it from Shanxi. Tone aside,
both have the same pronunciation in Mandarin.

Tone aside, eh? Like "bed" & "bad", which are the same in English
apart from the vowel sound.
Nigel

I like to think of how the mouth prioritizes the sounds which gives a
distinctive sound. Other dialects sound different in their use of
mouth and tongue and obviously, the other issues.

***@mail.hongkong.com
"Even those who are imposters are honored on account of their garb, as
the world is taken in by their fair outwards show, but in the end they
are exposed and do not succeed...." --Balakanda 6.3.B

[LEE Sau Dan]

Post by Jarel
I think the difference in pronunciation in Mandarin is the tone
between Shaanxi and Shanxi. My question is why the "double a"
spelling for Shaanxi and are the two pronounced differently in
English?

Sebastian> Shaanxi and Shanxi are neighbouring provinces in China,
Sebastian> and the double-a in Shaanxi is used simply to
Sebastian> distinguish it from Shanxi.

That's why I think it's better to use tone *letters* instead of tone
diacritics. Tone is an integral part of Chinese phonology, like
vowels in English. Spelling out the tones (as letters) is thus
logical and useful.

[ordosclan]

Post by LEE Sau Dan
That's why I think it's better to use tone *letters* instead of tone
diacritics. Tone is an integral part of Chinese phonology, like
vowels in English. Spelling out the tones (as letters) is thus
logical and useful.

Well its easyer to type. Now with mass media, computers, educational
reforms, we have different issues. In the "old days" this wasnt
important. Tone is important to phonology, yes. But phonology isnt
fundamental to the "hardware" of language. We could simply use a
universal character for something and hudreds of dialects represent
peoples different tastes (opinions) on how something should sound.
There have always been illiterate and deaf people in china.

***@mail.hongkong.com
"Even those who are imposters are honored on account of their garb, as
the world is taken in by their fair outwards show, but in the end they
are exposed and do not succeed...." --Balakanda 6.3.B

[LEE Sau Dan]

Jarel> I think the difference in pronunciation in Mandarin is
Jarel> the tone between Shaanxi and Shanxi.

You're right. In Mandarin, they differ only by the tone. This is not
true for southern Chinese dialects, though.


Jarel> My question is why the "double a" spelling for Shaanxi and

So that those Westerns who would normally drop tone marks can still
distinguish these two names, even after copying. A double "a" can
survive copying by these people, but the tone marks won't.


Jarel> are the two pronounced differently in English?

Ask the English speakers.

[Jarel]

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[ordosclan]

Post by Jarel
I think the difference in pronunciation in Mandarin is the tone between
Shaanxi and Shanxi. My question is why the "double a" spelling for Shaanxi and
are the two pronounced differently in English?
Jarel
http://www.geocities.com/jjkugadedeaton/index.html

Because the double "aa" makes it a dipping tone. At least
instinctivly. Like "chiao" versus "chow".

***@mail.hongkong.com
"Even those who are imposters are honored on account of their garb, as
the world is taken in by their fair outwards show, but in the end they
are exposed and do not succeed...." --Balakanda 6.3.B