Discussion:
Word of the day: “ithyphallic”
(too old to reply)
Aidan Kehoe
2024-09-19 04:59:08 UTC
Permalink
I was in the National Archeological Museum in Athens a couple of days ago, and
the English-language description under one of the early exhibits used the word
“ithyphallic,” which was new to me. It is of course no longer 1990 with the
associated need to make a written note of the word and consult a paper
dictionary when such a difficulty comes up, and I learned fairly quickly that
it means “having an erect penis.”

Interestingly etymonline also mentions the following, also new to me:

“1795, in reference to a type of meter used in ancient Greek poetry (earlier
as a noun, “poem in ithyphallic meter,” 1610s), from Latin ithyphallicus,
from Greek ithyphallikos, from ithyphallos “phallus carried in the
festivals,” from ithys “straight, straight upward” + phallos “erect penis”
(see phallus). Credited to Archilochus, the meter was that of the Bacchic
hymns, which were sung in the rites during which such phalluses were carried.
Thus, in Victorian times, the word also meant “grossly indecent” (1864) and
sometimes was used in scholarly works in its literal sense of “with erect
penis” (1837).”

In general there is a wealth of English words to be learned from the
descriptions of the exhibits in that museum, words that will likely not be that
useful unless you are speaking with a scholar of ancient Greece about ancient
Greece. Another one that stuck for me was “metic”, “resident foreigner in a
Greek city state,” apparently not related to meticulous.

If anyone is going to Athens, be aware there is a significant street drug
problem. If you are bringing children check with the hotel about what streets
to avoid, if you prefer not to have to explain what this man sitting on the
ground with a needle and a syringe sticking into his arm is doing.
--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)
Hibou
2024-09-19 05:05:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aidan Kehoe
I was in the National Archeological Museum in Athens a couple of days ago, and
the English-language description under one of the early exhibits used the word
“ithyphallic,” which was new to me. It is of course no longer 1990 with the
associated need to make a written note of the word and consult a paper
dictionary when such a difficulty comes up, and I learned fairly quickly that
it means “having an erect penis.” [...]
If anyone is going to Athens, be aware there is a significant street drug
problem. If you are bringing children check with the hotel about what streets
to avoid, if you prefer not to have to explain what this man sitting on the
ground with a needle and a syringe sticking into his arm is doing.
One could just segue from 'ithyphallic' and explain that it's another
sense of 'prick'.
occam
2024-09-19 06:53:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aidan Kehoe
Another one that stuck for me was “metic”, “resident foreigner in a
Greek city state,” apparently not related to meticulous.
Try 'hermetic' as a related concept. A 'foreigner' in ancient Greek was
someone from another city state, even if that was a city in Greece.
'Greece' did not become an entity until much later.
J. J. Lodder
2024-09-19 19:49:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Another one that stuck for me was "metic", "resident foreigner in a
Greek city state," apparently not related to meticulous.
Try 'hermetic' as a related concept. A 'foreigner' in ancient Greek was
someone from another city state, even if that was a city in Greece.
'Greece' did not become an entity until much later.
Depends on what you want 'entity' to mean.
Those ancient Greeks certainly saw themselves as a cultural entity,
with a shared language and culture. This extended to 'Greater Greece'.
It was only the narrow sense of a political entity that was
inconceivable to them,

Jan
Snidely
2024-09-19 20:43:09 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, J. J. Lodder pointed out that ...
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by occam
Another one that stuck for me was "metic", "resident foreigner in a
Greek city state," apparently not related to meticulous.
Try 'hermetic' as a related concept. A 'foreigner' in ancient Greek was
someone from another city state, even if that was a city in Greece.
'Greece' did not become an entity until much later.
Depends on what you want 'entity' to mean.
Those ancient Greeks certainly saw themselves as a cultural entity,
with a shared language and culture. This extended to 'Greater Greece'.
It was only the narrow sense of a political entity that was
inconceivable to them,
Jan
I have a better sense of how Egypt came to be a cultural entity than I
do for Greece. On the one hand, the political development of the
winning Pharoahs is easy to read about; on the other, my histories of
Greece generally begin with the last king of Athens and the rise of the
early democracy, which seems to be well after there were several
city-states that considered themselves to be Greek.

/dps
--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.
Snidely
2024-09-19 20:48:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snidely
On Thursday, J. J. Lodder pointed out that ...
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by occam
Another one that stuck for me was "metic", "resident foreigner in a
Greek city state," apparently not related to meticulous.
Try 'hermetic' as a related concept. A 'foreigner' in ancient Greek was
someone from another city state, even if that was a city in Greece.
'Greece' did not become an entity until much later.
Depends on what you want 'entity' to mean.
Those ancient Greeks certainly saw themselves as a cultural entity,
with a shared language and culture. This extended to 'Greater Greece'.
It was only the narrow sense of a political entity that was
inconceivable to them,
Jan
I have a better sense of how Egypt came to be a cultural entity than I do for
Greece. On the one hand, the political development of the winning Pharoahs
is easy to read about; on the other, my histories of Greece generally begin
with the last king of Athens and the rise of the early democracy, which seems
to be well after there were several city-states that considered themselves to
be Greek.
/dps
And so I turn to the rabbit hole:
<URL:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycenaean_Greece>

-d
--
"Maintaining a really good conspiracy requires far more intelligent
application, by a large number of people, than the world can readily
supply."

Sam Plusnet
J. J. Lodder
2024-09-19 21:38:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snidely
On Thursday, J. J. Lodder pointed out that ...
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by occam
Another one that stuck for me was "metic", "resident foreigner in a
Greek city state," apparently not related to meticulous.
Try 'hermetic' as a related concept. A 'foreigner' in ancient Greek was
someone from another city state, even if that was a city in Greece.
'Greece' did not become an entity until much later.
Depends on what you want 'entity' to mean.
Those ancient Greeks certainly saw themselves as a cultural entity,
with a shared language and culture. This extended to 'Greater Greece'.
It was only the narrow sense of a political entity that was
inconceivable to them,
Jan
I have a better sense of how Egypt came to be a cultural entity than I
do for Greece. On the one hand, the political development of the
winning Pharoahs is easy to read about; on the other, my histories of
Greece generally begin with the last king of Athens and the rise of the
early democracy, which seems to be well after there were several
city-states that considered themselves to be Greek.
They had a common language and culture
well before Homer started writing it up.
The Mycenean Linear B script already contains archaic Greek.
(but unfortunately no literature)
Trade may be a better basis for a common culture than conquest,

Jan
Kerr-Mudd, John
2024-09-19 20:49:46 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 21:49:11 +0200
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by occam
Another one that stuck for me was "metic", "resident foreigner in a
Greek city state," apparently not related to meticulous.
Try 'hermetic' as a related concept. A 'foreigner' in ancient Greek was
someone from another city state, even if that was a city in Greece.
'Greece' did not become an entity until much later.
Depends on what you want 'entity' to mean.
Those ancient Greeks certainly saw themselves as a cultural entity,
with a shared language and culture. This extended to 'Greater Greece'.
It was only the narrow sense of a political entity that was
inconceivable to them,
In his travels (read killing spree) Alexander encountered some lost Greek
settlement; unfortunately for them they hadn't kept up *all* the right
procedures to appease the gods, so he had to slaughter them as well.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
J. J. Lodder
2024-09-19 21:38:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 21:49:11 +0200
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by occam
Another one that stuck for me was "metic", "resident foreigner in a
Greek city state," apparently not related to meticulous.
Try 'hermetic' as a related concept. A 'foreigner' in ancient Greek was
someone from another city state, even if that was a city in Greece.
'Greece' did not become an entity until much later.
Depends on what you want 'entity' to mean.
Those ancient Greeks certainly saw themselves as a cultural entity,
with a shared language and culture. This extended to 'Greater Greece'.
It was only the narrow sense of a political entity that was
inconceivable to them,
In his travels (read killing spree) Alexander encountered some lost Greek
settlement; unfortunately for them they hadn't kept up *all* the right
procedures to appease the gods, so he had to slaughter them as well.
Only the men, I guess. There are still tribes in Afghanistan
that claim descent from Alexander's soldiers,

Jan
HenHanna
2024-09-26 20:01:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aidan Kehoe
I was in the National Archeological Museum in Athens a couple of days ago, and
the English-language description under one of the early exhibits used the word
“ithyphallic,” which was new to me. It is of course no longer 1990 with the
associated need to make a written note of the word and consult a paper
dictionary when such a difficulty comes up, and I learned fairly quickly that
it means “having an erect penis.”
“1795, in reference to a type of meter used in ancient Greek poetry (earlier
as a noun, “poem in ithyphallic meter,” 1610s), from Latin ithyphallicus,
from Greek ithyphallikos, from ithyphallos “phallus carried in the
festivals,” from ithys “straight, straight upward” + phallos “erect penis”
(see phallus). Credited to Archilochus, the meter was that of the Bacchic
hymns, which were sung in the rites during which such phalluses were carried.
Thus, in Victorian times, the word also meant “grossly indecent” (1864) and
sometimes was used in scholarly works in its literal sense of “with erect
penis” (1837).”
In general there is a wealth of English words to be learned from the
descriptions of the exhibits in that museum, words that will likely not be that
useful unless you are speaking with a scholar of ancient Greece about ancient
Greece. Another one that stuck for me was “metic”, “resident foreigner in a
Greek city state,” apparently not related to meticulous.
If anyone is going to Athens, be aware there is a significant street drug
problem. If you are bringing children check with the hotel about what streets
to avoid, if you prefer not to have to explain what this man sitting on the
ground with a needle and a syringe sticking into his arm is doing.
i did sorame and thought it was ichthyphallic

--------- "Fish-penised"

Loading...