Discussion:
Are dual and jewel homophones?
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Ruud Harmsen
2018-10-31 14:10:10 UTC
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Are dual and jewel homophones?

Anywhere, somewhere, everywhere?

Are there other examples where the same pronunciation can be written
in such widely diverging ways?
Peter T. Daniels
2018-10-31 14:38:15 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
Are dual and jewel homophones?
Anywhere, somewhere, everywhere?
Are there other examples where the same pronunciation can be written
in such widely diverging ways?
I suspect that those who insert a y in dual are not the same who palatalize
a d before a y.
Christian Weisgerber
2018-10-31 15:43:51 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
Are dual and jewel homophones?
Anywhere, somewhere, everywhere?
Somewhere. I expect it from young-ish Londoners, for instance.

The underlying historical onset of <dual> is /dj/.

This has three different outcomes in various varieties of English:
* conserved as /dj/ (conservative British English)
* the /j/ is dropped (American English)
* shifted to /dʒ/, so-called "yod coalescence" (modern British English)

I've noticed that yod coalescence is common among younger British
speakers, and in fact the "English" dictionary at dictionary.cambridge.org
now lists these pronunciations as standard for the UK. This applies
equally to /tj/ > /tʃ/.

Yod coalescence is a recurrent feature in English phonological
history. I think the previous round happened before unstressed
vowels (e.g. <educate>). AmE lost /j/ after alveolars before
stressed vowels. BrE didn't and is now undergoing yod coalescence
there.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
Christian Weisgerber
2018-10-31 15:51:01 UTC
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If you can read my broken French, this article covers much of the
relevant ground:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/fr.lettres.langue.anglaise/5DErPFyH6-s/f_qD5-XVBwAJ
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
Ruud Harmsen
2018-11-01 10:50:27 UTC
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Wed, 31 Oct 2018 15:51:01 -0000 (UTC): Christian Weisgerber
Post by Christian Weisgerber
If you can read my broken French, this article covers much of the
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/fr.lettres.langue.anglaise/5DErPFyH6-s/f_qD5-XVBwAJ
Le peux lire ça, merci beaucoup !

Peter T. Daniels
2018-10-31 17:51:13 UTC
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Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Are dual and jewel homophones?
Anywhere, somewhere, everywhere?
Somewhere. I expect it from young-ish Londoners, for instance.
The underlying historical onset of <dual> is /dj/.
* conserved as /dj/ (conservative British English)
* the /j/ is dropped (American English)
* shifted to /dʒ/, so-called "yod coalescence" (modern British English)
I've noticed that yod coalescence is common among younger British
speakers, and in fact the "English" dictionary at dictionary.cambridge.org
now lists these pronunciations as standard for the UK. This applies
equally to /tj/ > /tʃ/.
Yod coalescence is a recurrent feature in English phonological
history. I think the previous round happened before unstressed
vowels (e.g. <educate>). AmE lost /j/ after alveolars before
stressed vowels. BrE didn't and is now undergoing yod coalescence
there.
I usually hear syndicated Philadelphia radio personality Terry Gross
introduce herself as Cherry Gross.
Daud Deden
2018-10-31 21:54:24 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Are dual and jewel homophones?
Anywhere, somewhere, everywhere?
Somewhere. I expect it from young-ish Londoners, for instance.
The underlying historical onset of <dual> is /dj/.
* conserved as /dj/ (conservative British English)
* the /j/ is dropped (American English)
* shifted to /dʒ/, so-called "yod coalescence" (modern British English)
I've noticed that yod coalescence is common among younger British
speakers, and in fact the "English" dictionary at dictionary.cambridge.org
now lists these pronunciations as standard for the UK. This applies
equally to /tj/ > /tʃ/.
Yod coalescence is a recurrent feature in English phonological
history. I think the previous round happened before unstressed
vowels (e.g. <educate>). AmE lost /j/ after alveolars before
stressed vowels. BrE didn't and is now undergoing yod coalescence
there.
I usually hear syndicated Philadelphia radio personality Terry Gross
introduce herself as Cherry Gross.
Here in Miami, train station announcements are either in British received pronunciation (for the int'l tourists) or Spanish, but one elevator "speaks" Southern dialect, descending to the "greyhound" (ground) floor.
Daud Deden
2018-10-31 21:48:27 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
Are dual and jewel homophones?
More or less, yes, in US.
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Anywhere, somewhere, everywhere?
Are there other examples where the same pronunciation can be written
in such widely diverging ways?
Surely numerous.

Dual/double/duple/duo ***@Mbuti: under/interior/endo, int(r)o & ex(i)to
Jewel/ndja(mb)uatl? gem/sun-water(conjecture)
Daud Deden
2018-11-01 03:47:07 UTC
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I misunderstood, my response referred only to the post-initial parts of the two words. I cluding the initials, they aren't homophones.
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