Discussion:
morn, morrow, Morgen, ... --- each mean Morning, and Tomorrow.
(too old to reply)
Hen Hanna
2018-01-24 21:04:21 UTC
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hey, I just got a great tip... (Alice and Red Queen) Thanks!
i'll another question.


French matin is not [tomorrow] ?


morn, morrow, Morgen,
--- each mean Morning, and Tomorrow.

Is this true in most languages?

Would this be related to how,
for many centuries
ppl tend to get up earlier (than now)?


HH
Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
2018-01-24 23:03:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hen Hanna
hey, I just got a great tip... (Alice and Red Queen) Thanks!
i'll another question.
French matin is not [tomorrow] ?
No, "tomorrow" is "demain" in French.
Post by Hen Hanna
morn, morrow, Morgen,
--- each mean Morning, and Tomorrow.
Is this true in most languages?
I don't know about most languages. It is a widespread phenomenon in Indo-European languages, and in ones influenced by them.
Post by Hen Hanna
Would this be related to how,
for many centuries
ppl tend to get up earlier (than now)?
No. It would be related to how (next, incoming) morning is the same as tomorrow.
Helmut Richter
2018-01-25 20:58:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
Post by Hen Hanna
hey, I just got a great tip... (Alice and Red Queen) Thanks!
i'll another question.
French matin is not [tomorrow] ?
No, "tomorrow" is "demain" in French.
Post by Hen Hanna
morn, morrow, Morgen,
--- each mean Morning, and Tomorrow.
Is this true in most languages?
I don't know about most languages. It is a widespread phenomenon in Indo-European languages, and in ones influenced by them.
Say, in Germanic languages in which a cognate of morning is used for
morning or tomorrow. Are there non-Germanic languages as well that show
that behaviour?

The few non-IE languages I know a little don't have that parallel either:
he: machar (tomorrow) from the root אחר ([be] late), not a cognate of
boqer (morning)
sw: kesho (tomorrow) cognate of kesha (lie awake), not a cognate of
asubuhi (morning, from Arabic الصُبْح)
--
Helmut Richter
Hen Hanna
2018-01-25 21:30:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Helmut Richter
Post by Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
Post by Hen Hanna
hey, I just got a great tip... (Alice and Red Queen) Thanks!
i'll another question.
French matin is not [tomorrow] ?
No, "tomorrow" is "demain" in French.
Post by Hen Hanna
morn, morrow, Morgen,
--- each mean Morning, and Tomorrow.
Is this true in most languages?
I don't know about most languages. It is a widespread phenomenon in Indo-European languages, and in ones influenced by them.
Say, in Germanic languages in which a cognate of morning is used for
morning or tomorrow. Are there non-Germanic languages as well that show
that behaviour?
he: machar (tomorrow) from the root אחר ([be] late), not a cognate of
boqer (morning)
sw: kesho (tomorrow) cognate of kesha (lie awake), not a cognate of
asubuhi (morning, from Arabic الصُبْح)
--
Helmut Richter
Jp Ashita is both Morning, and Tomorrow.


Would this be related to how,
for many centuries
ppl tend to get up earlier (than now)?
I do think so.
-- many ppl today don't have much of a (work-)morning.
Post by Helmut Richter
Post by Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
Post by Hen Hanna
Indo-European languages often use notions of "morning", "tomorrow", and "early" interchangably. The Ancient Greek for "tomorrow", aurion, is cognate to the Lithuanian aušrà "dawn"; and the Ancient Greek for "morning", prōi, is transparently related to the word for "before", pro. So it's tempting to say "'coz Proto–Indo-European". <<<
"I do it in the morning." -- in Ger, Jp,... there's no diff between Present and Future.


HH
b***@ihug.co.nz
2018-01-25 22:06:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hen Hanna
Post by Helmut Richter
Post by Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
Post by Hen Hanna
hey, I just got a great tip... (Alice and Red Queen) Thanks!
i'll another question.
French matin is not [tomorrow] ?
No, "tomorrow" is "demain" in French.
Post by Hen Hanna
morn, morrow, Morgen,
--- each mean Morning, and Tomorrow.
Is this true in most languages?
I don't know about most languages. It is a widespread phenomenon in Indo-European languages, and in ones influenced by them.
Say, in Germanic languages in which a cognate of morning is used for
morning or tomorrow. Are there non-Germanic languages as well that show
that behaviour?
he: machar (tomorrow) from the root אחר ([be] late), not a cognate of
boqer (morning)
sw: kesho (tomorrow) cognate of kesha (lie awake), not a cognate of
asubuhi (morning, from Arabic الصُبْح)
--
Helmut Richter
Jp Ashita is both Morning, and Tomorrow.
I know it only as "tomorrow", but it could be historically related
to asa "morning".
Hen Hanna
2018-01-25 22:43:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Hen Hanna
Post by Helmut Richter
Post by Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
Post by Hen Hanna
hey, I just got a great tip... (Alice and Red Queen) Thanks!
i'll another question.
French matin is not [tomorrow] ?
No, "tomorrow" is "demain" in French.
Post by Hen Hanna
morn, morrow, Morgen,
--- each mean Morning, and Tomorrow.
Is this true in most languages?
I don't know about most languages. It is a widespread phenomenon in Indo-European languages, and in ones influenced by them.
Say, in Germanic languages in which a cognate of morning is used for
morning or tomorrow. Are there non-Germanic languages as well that show
that behaviour?
he: machar (tomorrow) from the root אחר ([be] late), not a cognate of
boqer (morning)
sw: kesho (tomorrow) cognate of kesha (lie awake), not a cognate of
asubuhi (morning, from Arabic الصُبْح)
--
Helmut Richter
Jp Ashita is both Morning, and Tomorrow.
I know it only as "tomorrow", but it could be historically related
to asa "morning".
2 samples of Ashita as "morning"


a famous and loved song:

あした浜辺を さまよえば Ashita hamabe wo samayoeba
昔のことぞ 忍ばるる Mukashi no koto zo shinobaruru
風の音よ 雲のさまよ Kaze no oto yo kumo no sama yo
寄する波も 貝の色も Yosuru nami mo kai no iro mo

(when) In the morning, I stroll along the beach .........
I remember of old things (memories) ...........



Japanese Proverbs and Sayings - Page 50
Daniel Crump Buchanan - 1965
Ashita michi wo ..., yuube ni shisu totno kanari: "If I hear the way in the morning, even though I die in the evening it will be tolerable." This saying, attributed to Confucius who eagerly sought after the right way of life, is widely quoted and admired in Japan as an example of moral courage.


朝に道を聞かば夕べに死すとも可なり (hiragana あしたにみちをきかばゆうべにしすともかなり, rōmaji ashita ni michi o kikaba yūbe ni shisu tomo ka nari)


https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%9C%9D%E3%81%AB%E9%81%93%E3%82%92%E8%81%9E%E3%81%8B%E3%81%B0%E5%A4%95%E3%81%B9%E3%81%AB%E6%AD%BB%E3%81%99%E3%81%A8%E3%82%82%E5%8F%AF%E3%81%AA%E3%82%8A
b***@ihug.co.nz
2018-01-26 00:13:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hen Hanna
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Hen Hanna
Post by Helmut Richter
Post by Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
Post by Hen Hanna
hey, I just got a great tip... (Alice and Red Queen) Thanks!
i'll another question.
French matin is not [tomorrow] ?
No, "tomorrow" is "demain" in French.
Post by Hen Hanna
morn, morrow, Morgen,
--- each mean Morning, and Tomorrow.
Is this true in most languages?
I don't know about most languages. It is a widespread phenomenon in Indo-European languages, and in ones influenced by them.
Say, in Germanic languages in which a cognate of morning is used for
morning or tomorrow. Are there non-Germanic languages as well that show
that behaviour?
he: machar (tomorrow) from the root אחר ([be] late), not a cognate of
boqer (morning)
sw: kesho (tomorrow) cognate of kesha (lie awake), not a cognate of
asubuhi (morning, from Arabic الصُبْح)
--
Helmut Richter
Jp Ashita is both Morning, and Tomorrow.
I know it only as "tomorrow", but it could be historically related
to asa "morning".
2 samples of Ashita as "morning"
あした浜辺を さまよえば Ashita hamabe wo samayoeba
昔のことぞ 忍ばるる Mukashi no koto zo shinobaruru
風の音よ 雲のさまよ Kaze no oto yo kumo no sama yo
寄する波も 貝の色も Yosuru nami mo kai no iro mo
(when) In the morning, I stroll along the beach .........
I remember of old things (memories) ...........
Japanese Proverbs and Sayings - Page 50
Daniel Crump Buchanan - 1965
Ashita michi wo ..., yuube ni shisu totno kanari: "If I hear the way in the morning, even though I die in the evening it will be tolerable." This saying, attributed to Confucius who eagerly sought after the right way of life, is widely quoted and admired in Japan as an example of moral courage.
朝に道を聞かば夕べに死すとも可なり (hiragana あしたにみちをきかばゆうべにしすともかなり, rōmaji ashita ni michi o kikaba yūbe ni shisu tomo ka nari)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%9C%9D%E3%81%AB%E9%81%93%E3%82%92%E8%81%9E%E3%81%8B%E3%81%B0%E5%A4%95%E3%81%B9%E3%81%AB%E6%AD%BB%E3%81%99%E3%81%A8%E3%82%82%E5%8F%AF%E3%81%AA%E3%82%8A
It's tricky to prove this, just because of this widespread connection.
Both your examples are translated as "in the morning", which in English
can mean "the next morning" or "tomorrow morning".
Daud Deden
2018-01-26 20:38:03 UTC
Permalink
Morning, tomorrow =

Moon-over/after-moon (guess)
Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
2018-01-25 22:33:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Helmut Richter
Post by Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
Post by Hen Hanna
hey, I just got a great tip... (Alice and Red Queen) Thanks!
i'll another question.
French matin is not [tomorrow] ?
No, "tomorrow" is "demain" in French.
Post by Hen Hanna
morn, morrow, Morgen,
--- each mean Morning, and Tomorrow.
Is this true in most languages?
I don't know about most languages. It is a widespread phenomenon in Indo-European languages, and in ones influenced by them.
Say, in Germanic languages in which a cognate of morning is used for
morning or tomorrow. Are there non-Germanic languages as well that show
that behaviour?
Finnish huomenna "tomorrow" is related to the archaic word for morning, huomen.

Polish jutro "tomorrow" is an obvious cognate of Russian utro "morning".
Yusuf B Gursey
2018-02-01 21:18:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Helmut Richter
Post by Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
Post by Hen Hanna
hey, I just got a great tip... (Alice and Red Queen) Thanks!
i'll another question.
French matin is not [tomorrow] ?
No, "tomorrow" is "demain" in French.
Post by Hen Hanna
morn, morrow, Morgen,
--- each mean Morning, and Tomorrow.
Is this true in most languages?
I don't know about most languages. It is a widespread phenomenon in Indo-European languages, and in ones influenced by them.
Say, in Germanic languages in which a cognate of morning is used for
morning or tomorrow. Are there non-Germanic languages as well that show
that behaviour?
he: machar (tomorrow) from the root אחר ([be] late), not a cognate of
boqer (morning)
sw: kesho (tomorrow) cognate of kesha (lie awake), not a cognate of
asubuhi (morning, from Arabic الصُبْح)
Arabic bukran (adverbial accusative) from root early meaning to be
done tomorrow.
Post by Helmut Richter
--
Helmut Richter
b***@ihug.co.nz
2018-01-25 04:08:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hen Hanna
hey, I just got a great tip... (Alice and Red Queen) Thanks!
i'll another question.
French matin is not [tomorrow] ?
morn, morrow, Morgen,
--- each mean Morning, and Tomorrow.
Is this true in most languages?
Would this be related to how,
for many centuries
ppl tend to get up earlier (than now)?
HH
I think most people still get up in the morning.
But it's not about getting up.

And I think it is found in all kinds of languages.

Some Austronesian examples:

Zabana (Solomon Islands)

fuɣo tomorrow
fu-fuɣo morning

Tongan

pongipongi morning
'apongipongi tomorrow

And it works for "evening" and "yesterday" in a similar way:

Melanau (Philippines)

abəy late afternoon, evening
m-abəy yesterday

Samoan

afiafi evening
ananafi yesterday
Hen Hanna
2018-01-25 19:45:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Hen Hanna
hey, I just got a great tip... (Alice and Red Queen) Thanks!
i'll another question.
French matin is not [tomorrow] ?
morn, morrow, Morgen,
--- each mean Morning, and Tomorrow.
Is this true in most languages?
Would this be related to how,
for many centuries
ppl tend to get up earlier (than now)?
HH
I think most people still get up in the morning.
But it's not about getting up.
And I think it is found in all kinds of languages.
Zabana (Solomon Islands)
fuɣo tomorrow
fu-fuɣo morning
Tongan
pongipongi morning
'apongipongi tomorrow
Melanau (Philippines)
abəy late afternoon, evening
m-abəy yesterday
Samoan
afiafi evening
ananafi yesterday
French matin is not [tomorrow] ? --> No, "tomorrow" is "demain" in French.
[demain] looks like [of hand], like
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/maintenant
== (hand-hold) "at hand"
really? the only example I can think of is
the Japanese Yuube. HH
b***@ihug.co.nz
2018-01-25 22:12:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hen Hanna
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Hen Hanna
hey, I just got a great tip... (Alice and Red Queen) Thanks!
i'll another question.
French matin is not [tomorrow] ?
morn, morrow, Morgen,
--- each mean Morning, and Tomorrow.
Is this true in most languages?
Would this be related to how,
for many centuries
ppl tend to get up earlier (than now)?
HH
I think most people still get up in the morning.
But it's not about getting up.
And I think it is found in all kinds of languages.
Zabana (Solomon Islands)
fuɣo tomorrow
fu-fuɣo morning
Tongan
pongipongi morning
'apongipongi tomorrow
Melanau (Philippines)
abəy late afternoon, evening
m-abəy yesterday
Samoan
afiafi evening
ananafi yesterday
French matin is not [tomorrow] ? --> No, "tomorrow" is "demain" in French.
[demain] looks like [of hand], like
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/maintenant
== (hand-hold) "at hand"
really? the only example I can think of is
the Japanese Yuube. HH
= "evening, last night", though not exactly "yesterday".
I gave you a couple of Austronesian examples.
And what about Russian včera "yesterday", večer "evening"?
Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
2018-01-25 23:09:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hen Hanna
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Hen Hanna
hey, I just got a great tip... (Alice and Red Queen) Thanks!
i'll another question.
French matin is not [tomorrow] ?
morn, morrow, Morgen,
--- each mean Morning, and Tomorrow.
Is this true in most languages?
Would this be related to how,
for many centuries
ppl tend to get up earlier (than now)?
HH
I think most people still get up in the morning.
But it's not about getting up.
And I think it is found in all kinds of languages.
Zabana (Solomon Islands)
fuɣo tomorrow
fu-fuɣo morning
Tongan
pongipongi morning
'apongipongi tomorrow
Melanau (Philippines)
abəy late afternoon, evening
m-abəy yesterday
Samoan
afiafi evening
ananafi yesterday
French matin is not [tomorrow] ? --> No, "tomorrow" is "demain" in French.
[demain] looks like [of hand], like
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/maintenant
== (hand-hold) "at hand"
You could get yourself an etymological dictionary of French, you know. You non-and-never-linguists are pathetic, so incapable you are of using the standard tools of the trade.
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