Discussion:
Dutch moot "slice"
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Arnaud Fournet
2018-08-23 17:58:11 UTC
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Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
Daud Deden
2018-08-23 19:54:37 UTC
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Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
Sorry A.F. I don't know.
---
Mbuatlachya (make/fruit)-lyze?
Daud Deden
2018-08-24 13:51:20 UTC
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Post by Daud Deden
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
Sorry A.F. I don't know.
---
Mbuatlachya (make/fruit/flesh/wood)-lyze?
I guess -lyze -> little(r), belittle, lessen
Daud Deden
2018-08-24 14:48:52 UTC
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Immutable?
b***@ihug.co.nz
2018-08-23 20:45:15 UTC
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Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
OED:
moot n.2 A tree stump

Origin uncertain; perhaps the reflex of an unattested Old English
noun cognate with Middle Dutch moot , mōte (Dutch moot ), German
regional (Low German: East Friesland) mot , mote , all in sense
‘slice, piece’ < the Germanic base of Gothic maitan to cut...

Pretty vague, and this English 'moot' doesn't turn up until the 18th century.
Daud Deden
2018-08-24 02:33:44 UTC
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Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
moot n.2 A tree stump
Origin uncertain; perhaps the reflex of an unattested Old English
noun cognate with Middle Dutch moot , mōte (Dutch moot ), German
regional (Low German: East Friesland) mot , mote , all in sense
‘slice, piece’ < the Germanic base of Gothic maitan to cut...
Pretty vague, and this English 'moot' doesn't turn up until the 18th century.
I don't recall ever coming across moot/stump before.

cut/moot/bite/xyuambuat

Might link to shabat/remainder (trunk that remains rooted)

Before modern hydraulics that can actually slice a tree, they were gnawed by axe or sawblade or beaver.

Bon mot?
b***@ihug.co.nz
2018-08-24 03:14:55 UTC
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Post by Daud Deden
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
moot n.2 A tree stump
Origin uncertain; perhaps the reflex of an unattested Old English
noun cognate with Middle Dutch moot , mōte (Dutch moot ), German
regional (Low German: East Friesland) mot , mote , all in sense
‘slice, piece’ < the Germanic base of Gothic maitan to cut...
Pretty vague, and this English 'moot' doesn't turn up until the 18th century.
I don't recall ever coming across moot/stump before.
cut/moot/bite/xyuambuat
Might link to shabat/remainder (trunk that remains rooted)
Before modern hydraulics that can actually slice a tree, they were gnawed by axe or sawblade or beaver.
Bon mot?
Proto Eastern Malayo-Polynesian *mutu 'broken off, cut off'
Arnaud Fournet
2018-08-24 05:49:49 UTC
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Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
moot n.2 A tree stump
Origin uncertain; perhaps the reflex of an unattested Old English
noun cognate with Middle Dutch moot , mōte (Dutch moot ), German
regional (Low German: East Friesland) mot , mote , all in sense
‘slice, piece’ < the Germanic base of Gothic maitan to cut...
Pretty vague, and this English 'moot' doesn't turn up until the 18th century.
Thank you !
Franz Gnaedinger
2018-08-24 06:21:10 UTC
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Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
Magdalenian proposes

MOT --- to cut and clean a hide with a stone knive; Latin moto for I move
back and forth

Among the derivatives is German Messer 'knive', and with a knive you can take
off a slice of something.
Franz Gnaedinger
2018-08-25 07:54:14 UTC
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Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Magdalenian proposes
MOT --- to cut and clean a hide with a stone knive; Latin moto for I move
back and forth
Among the derivatives is German Messer 'knive', and with a knive you can take
off a slice of something.
moot ansnijde (also: snede, snee, schijf, filet); slice {noun}

My tiny Dutch dictionary gives moot 'piece, fish', the fish being explained
by the above filet, a filet cut off from a cooked or fried fish.
wugi
2018-08-24 09:46:35 UTC
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Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
http://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/moot

Most sources don't go beyond Gothic maitan, but the second mentions
G. Meissel, Ameise, E. ant (~ emmet)
and "maybe dental der. of" 'di-mi-nishing' words ~ L. mi-nuere.
--
guido wugi
António Marques
2018-08-24 12:38:14 UTC
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Post by wugi
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
http://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/moot
Most sources don't go beyond Gothic maitan, but the second mentions
G. Meissel, Ameise, E. ant (~ emmet)
and "maybe dental der. of" 'di-mi-nishing' words ~ L. mi-nuere.
But whence the <oo>? Is it regular?
wugi
2018-08-24 20:25:34 UTC
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Post by António Marques
Post by wugi
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
http://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/moot
Most sources don't go beyond Gothic maitan, but the second mentions
G. Meissel, Ameise, E. ant (~ emmet)
and "maybe dental der. of" 'di-mi-nishing' words ~ L. mi-nuere.
But whence the <oo>? Is it regular?
Also under the second source: "Proto-Germaans *ai > West-Germaans ā > ō."
Others seek ablaut from 'meten', measuring.

As for 'regular' or not, I shouldn't know what it means seeing vowel
variety samples like these (Eng / Dut / Ger):

go / gaan / gehen
token / teken / Zeichen
nose / neus / Nase
room / ruim / Raum
beam / boom / Baum
beach / beek / Bach
must / moeten, moest / müssen, musste
meet / ontmoeten / -
did, deed / deed, daad / tat, Tat

And in Flemish dialects standard -a:- can become open -o:- or even -u:-.
Straat -> strôt, stroet
gaan -> gôn, goen
maat (meten) -> môt, moet
--
guido wugi
Christian Weisgerber
2018-08-24 23:01:30 UTC
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Post by wugi
Post by António Marques
But whence the <oo>? Is it regular?
Also under the second source: "Proto-Germaans *ai > West-Germaans ā > ō."
Wait, what? That development is specifically English:
PGmc *ai > OE ā > ME /ɔː/ > EME /oː/ > PDE /oʊ/

The standard reflex of PGmc *ai is <ei> in German.¹
Post by wugi
token / teken / Zeichen
That's actually an example of the regular outcomes of *ai.


¹) German <ei> is also the standard reflex of *ī.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
António Marques
2018-08-25 00:30:05 UTC
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Post by wugi
Post by António Marques
Post by wugi
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
http://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/moot
Most sources don't go beyond Gothic maitan, but the second mentions
G. Meissel, Ameise, E. ant (~ emmet)
and "maybe dental der. of" 'di-mi-nishing' words ~ L. mi-nuere.
But whence the <oo>? Is it regular?
Also under the second source: "Proto-Germaans *ai > West-Germaans ā > ō."
Others seek ablaut from 'meten', measuring.
As for 'regular' or not, I shouldn't know what it means seeing vowel
go / gaan / gehen
token / teken / Zeichen
I had never noticed token was cognate with zeichen (or with anything). Yep,
I know, bone/bein, home/heim...
Post by wugi
And in Flemish dialects standard -a:- can become open -o:- or even -u:-.
Straat -> strôt, stroet
gaan -> gôn, goen
maat (meten) -> môt, moet
Open o, not close?
wugi
2018-08-25 08:43:02 UTC
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Post by António Marques
Post by wugi
Post by António Marques
Post by wugi
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
http://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/moot
Most sources don't go beyond Gothic maitan, but the second mentions
G. Meissel, Ameise, E. ant (~ emmet)
and "maybe dental der. of" 'di-mi-nishing' words ~ L. mi-nuere.
But whence the <oo>? Is it regular?
Also under the second source: "Proto-Germaans *ai > West-Germaans ā > ō."
Others seek ablaut from 'meten', measuring.
As for 'regular' or not, I shouldn't know what it means seeing vowel
go / gaan / gehen
token / teken / Zeichen
I had never noticed token was cognate with zeichen (or with anything). Yep,
I know, bone/bein, home/heim...
Post by wugi
And in Flemish dialects standard -a:- can become open -o:- or even -u:-.
Straat -> strôt, stroet
gaan -> gôn, goen
maat (meten) -> môt, moet
Open o, not close?
Yes, long open. Like E. or F. "or", not closed like E. or F. "close".
--
guido wugi
Christian Weisgerber
2018-08-25 00:11:00 UTC
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Post by wugi
As for 'regular' or not, I shouldn't know what it means seeing vowel
Well, it is complicated. Vowels can develop differently in different
environments, there are mergers, lengthening and shortening, there
may be umlaut effects, if you're looking at verbs you're very likely
to run into paradigmatic leveling, and dialect mixing can confuse
the picture.

Basically you have to know A LOT of details. I mostly don't. ;-)
Post by wugi
room / ruim / Raum
There's an underlying PGmc *ū. The English spelling is unetymological
and I don't know why it didn't end up as *roum /raʊm/. Maybe some
oscillating between /uː/ and /ʊ/ that caused it to miss the excitement
of the Great Vowel Shift--sort of the opposite to "blood", which
underwent the GVS twice.
Post by wugi
beam / boom / Baum
Could be regular, I'd have to dig into the details.
Post by wugi
beach / beek / Bach
The English and Dutch forms reflect the result of umlaut; the German
word somehow escaped.
Post by wugi
did, deed / deed, daad / tat, Tat
For the noun we apparently have umlaut in English but not in Dutch
or German.

The past tense forms of strongs verbs are a mess because some classes
used to have two different vowels, one for the singular forms, one
for the plural, that where randomly leveled out. It looks like the
English form is from singular *e, the German one from plural *ē.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
Daud Deden
2018-08-25 01:33:17 UTC
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I wonder if moon & moot have an ancient correlation, the 7/sabbat days of the 28/month when the moon was 'bitten', the crescent, as seen in one very ancient picture (stone or wood carved) "calendar", thus a measure of cyclical time.
Ruud Harmsen
2018-08-25 07:12:27 UTC
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Post by wugi
And in Flemish dialects standard -a:- can become open -o:- or even -u:-.
Straat -> strôt, stroet
gaan -> gôn, goen
maat (meten) -> môt, moet
Brabantish, dialect, I understood. Brussels? But that is a moot point.
:)
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
wugi
2018-08-25 09:27:37 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
Post by wugi
And in Flemish dialects standard -a:- can become open -o:- or even -u:-.
Straat -> strôt, stroet
gaan -> gôn, goen
maat (meten) -> môt, moet
Brabantish, dialect, I understood. Brussels? But that is a moot point.
:)
Bah 't en doet, 't en doet. Brussels indeed.
Registratie -> rezjistrôôsse, rezjistroesse.
Baas -> bôs, boes

But not with all -aa- :
Kaas, kaars -> kèès
Aarde -> Jèèr
Paard, paarden -> Pjèèd, pjèère
;-)
--
guido wugi
Ruud Harmsen
2018-08-25 07:18:42 UTC
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Post by wugi
beach / beek / Bach
Wouldn't have thought they are related. But they are.

Also:
book / boec / Buch
(not the thing you read, but related to water;
I didn't even know those words)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/b%C5%8Dks

beech / beuk / Buche, Büche
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/b%C5%8Dkij%C7%AD
(the tree)
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Christian Weisgerber
2018-08-25 12:33:53 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
book / boec / Buch
(not the thing you read, but related to water;
I didn't even know those words)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/b%C5%8Dks
I think you got lost there. The "related to water" word is
brook / broek / Bruch
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/br%C5%8Dkaz

I think I only know "Bruch" because it's the name applied to a
protected wetland in the city here. It's pronounced /bʁuːx/, long
vowel, and thus forms a homographic minimal pair with "Bruch" /bʁʊx/,
break (fracture).
Post by Ruud Harmsen
beech / beuk / Buche, Büche
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/b%C5%8Dkij%C7%AD
(the tree)
That's another example where the English form reflects umlaut, but
the German one doesn't. That's starting to look like a pattern...

(I don't know where they get the variant "Büche" from; it's not in
any dictionaries, not even in Grimm.)
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
Daud Deden
2018-08-25 14:57:32 UTC
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Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Ruud Harmsen
book / boec / Buch
(not the thing you read, but related to water;
I didn't even know those words)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/b%C5%8Dks
I think you got lost there. The "related to water" word is
brook / broek / Bruch
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/br%C5%8Dkaz
I think I only know "Bruch" because it's the name applied to a
protected wetland in the city here. It's pronounced /bʁuːx/, long
vowel, and thus forms a homographic minimal pair with "Bruch" /bʁʊx/,
break (fracture).
Canebrake?
Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Ruud Harmsen
beech / beuk / Buche, Büche
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/b%C5%8Dkij%C7%AD
(the tree)
That's another example where the English form reflects umlaut, but
the German one doesn't. That's starting to look like a pattern...
(I don't know where they get the variant "Büche" from; it's not in
any dictionaries, not even in Grimm.)
--
Daud Deden
2018-08-26 23:46:26 UTC
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Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Ruud Harmsen
book / boec / Buch
(not the thing you read, but related to water;
I didn't even know those words)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/b%C5%8Dks
I think you got lost there. The "related to water" word is
brook / broek / Bruch
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/br%C5%8Dkaz
I think I only know "Bruch" because it's the name applied to a
protected wetland in the city here. It's pronounced /bʁuːx/, long
vowel, and thus forms a homographic minimal pair with "Bruch" /bʁʊx/,
break (fracture).
Post by Ruud Harmsen
beech / beuk / Buche, Büche
***@Spanish: beech
***@Spanish: beach

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/b%C5%8Dkij%C7%AD
Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Ruud Harmsen
(the tree)
That's another example where the English form reflects umlaut, but
the German one doesn't. That's starting to look like a pattern...
(I don't know where they get the variant "Büche" from; it's not in
any dictionaries, not even in Grimm.)
--
Ruud Harmsen
2018-08-25 07:30:38 UTC
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Post by wugi
And in Flemish dialects standard -a:- can become open -o:- or even -u:-.
Straat -> strôt, stroet
gaan -> gôn, goen
maat (meten) -> môt, moet
Also in Yiddish, Luxemburgish, etc., I think.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Christian Weisgerber
2018-08-24 20:55:27 UTC
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Post by António Marques
Post by wugi
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
http://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/moot
Most sources don't go beyond Gothic maitan, but the second mentions
G. Meissel, Ameise, E. ant (~ emmet)
But whence the <oo>? Is it regular?
I guess you have to postulate some sort of vowel alteration.
Gothic <ai> / PGmc *ai surfaces as <ee> or <ei> in Dutch:
*stainaz > steen, *aiks > eik, eek, *hailaz > heel, heil.

(Cf. English stone, oak, whole; German Stein, Eiche, heil.)

The consonantal skeleton m-t and the semantics fit, and the rest
can be explained by vigorous hand-waving...
"Of uncertain origin" might be a more honest assessment.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
António Marques
2018-08-25 00:31:53 UTC
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Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by António Marques
Post by wugi
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
http://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/moot
Most sources don't go beyond Gothic maitan, but the second mentions
G. Meissel, Ameise, E. ant (~ emmet)
But whence the <oo>? Is it regular?
I guess you have to postulate some sort of vowel alteration.
When this first came about I thought of _Messer_, but I still can’t see how
the vowels would work.
Post by Christian Weisgerber
*stainaz > steen, *aiks > eik, eek, *hailaz > heel, heil.
(Cf. English stone, oak, whole; German Stein, Eiche, heil.)
_Now_ maybe I’ll be able to remember what Eiche means!
Post by Christian Weisgerber
The consonantal skeleton m-t and the semantics fit, and the rest
can be explained by vigorous hand-waving...
😆
Post by Christian Weisgerber
"Of uncertain origin" might be a more honest assessment.
wugi
2018-08-25 09:04:18 UTC
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Post by António Marques
Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by António Marques
Post by wugi
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
http://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/moot
Most sources don't go beyond Gothic maitan, but the second mentions
G. Meissel, Ameise, E. ant (~ emmet)
But whence the <oo>? Is it regular?
I guess you have to postulate some sort of vowel alteration.
When this first came about I thought of _Messer_, but I still can’t see how
the vowels would work.
The first element there ~ meat, Metwurst, "mousse" (D. moes) and other
food words. "Moot" is not related to that, by most sources.
Post by António Marques
Post by Christian Weisgerber
*stainaz > steen, *aiks > eik, eek, *hailaz > heel, heil.
(Cf. English stone, oak, whole; German Stein, Eiche, heil.)
_Now_ maybe I’ll be able to remember what Eiche means!
Then there is this false etymo-pair
E. acorn
D.-G. eekhoorn, Eichhörnchen
The D. and E. pronounced almost the same.
All of unsure etymologies (sources differ), but with folk-etymo
influence of oak-eik-Eiche.
--
guido wugi
Christian Weisgerber
2018-08-25 12:11:28 UTC
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Post by António Marques
When this first came about I thought of _Messer_, but I still can’t see how
the vowels would work.
_Messer_ is an obscured compound, in Modern English cognates:
"meat-sax", food knife. That sounds fanciful, but OHG meʒʒisahs
and OE metseax are attested.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
Daud Deden
2018-08-24 13:38:58 UTC
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Post by wugi
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
http://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/moot
Most sources don't go beyond Gothic maitan, but the second mentions
G. Meissel, Ameise, E. ant (~ emmet)
and "maybe dental der. of" 'di-mi-nishing' words ~ L. mi-nuere.
--
guido wugi
Sounds like 'to whittle'
-
while away, little, (m/b)uatl, anima(te/l)/***@Mbuti, mea(t/l){the flesh to cut/bite}, a moot point(whittled sharp).
Ruud Harmsen
2018-08-24 19:51:06 UTC
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Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:58:11 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
What do you mean by «Dutch moot "slice"»?
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Arnaud Fournet
2018-08-26 17:37:13 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:58:11 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
What do you mean by «Dutch moot "slice"»?
Apparently, you understood precisely what I meant !
Ruud Harmsen
2018-08-27 15:25:26 UTC
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:37:13 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:58:11 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
What do you mean by «Dutch moot "slice"»?
Apparently, you understood precisely what I meant !
Only after a while. I read "moot" as the English word, and overlooked
the implicit comma or equal sign between moot and slice. Moreover, I
know the word "moot" only in connection with fish, and then it means a
cut piece rather than a slice.


"Als ik geen zin heb om te koken, dan loop ik even naar markt voor een
moot gebakken vis."

"When I don't feel like cooking, I simply walk to the market place for
(buying) a piece of frief ("baken") fish."
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Arnaud Fournet
2018-08-28 07:17:20 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:37:13 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:58:11 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
What do you mean by «Dutch moot "slice"»?
Apparently, you understood precisely what I meant !
Only after a while. I read "moot" as the English word, and overlooked
the implicit comma or equal sign between moot and slice. Moreover, I
know the word "moot" only in connection with fish, and then it means a
cut piece rather than a slice.
http://youtu.be/zL0dA98snZw
"Als ik geen zin heb om te koken, dan loop ik even naar markt voor een
moot gebakken vis."
"When I don't feel like cooking, I simply walk to the market place for
(buying) a piece of frief ("baken") fish."
My Dutch dictionary translates *moot* as "tranche" = slice, not piece.
Apparently, you disagree with this.
Ruud Harmsen
2018-08-28 11:25:03 UTC
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Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:17:20 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
"When I don't feel like cooking, I simply walk to the market place for
(buying) a piece of frief ("baken") fish."
My Dutch dictionary translates *moot* as "tranche" = slice, not piece.
Apparently, you disagree with this.
I only know the word "moot" in the expression "een moot vis". Fish
doesn't usually lend itself very well to cutting slices. (I interpret
"slice" as something rather thin.)

The large three-volume Van Dale monolingual dictionary says:
"afgesneden stuk van een vis" (cut off piece of a fish), "synonym
snee, schijf, plak, reep."
Especially those words "snee, schijf" to me suggest something thinner
than how I imagine a "moot vis". But I do agree with "afgesneden stuk
van een vis".
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Italo
2018-08-28 17:38:14 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:17:20 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
"When I don't feel like cooking, I simply walk to the market place for
(buying) a piece of frief ("baken") fish."
My Dutch dictionary translates *moot* as "tranche" = slice, not piece.
Apparently, you disagree with this.
I only know the word "moot" in the expression "een moot vis".
And then is there nog de hoofdmoot en het in mootjes hakken.
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Fish
doesn't usually lend itself very well to cutting slices. (I interpret
"slice" as something rather thin.)
"afgesneden stuk van een vis" (cut off piece of a fish), "synonym
snee, schijf, plak, reep."
Especially those words "snee, schijf" to me suggest something thinner
than how I imagine a "moot vis". But I do agree with "afgesneden stuk
van een vis".
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
--
b o y c o t t a m e r i c a n p r o d u c t s
Arnaud Fournet
2018-08-29 11:22:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:17:20 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
"When I don't feel like cooking, I simply walk to the market place for
(buying) a piece of frief ("baken") fish."
My Dutch dictionary translates *moot* as "tranche" = slice, not piece.
Apparently, you disagree with this.
I only know the word "moot" in the expression "een moot vis". Fish
doesn't usually lend itself very well to cutting slices. (I interpret
"slice" as something rather thin.)
yes, I agree with this,
that's why "morceau" or "darne" seems more adequate in French than "tranche"
apparently, *een moot vis* does not have any particular shape.
Post by Ruud Harmsen
"afgesneden stuk van een vis" (cut off piece of a fish), "synonym
snee, schijf, plak, reep."
Especially those words "snee, schijf" to me suggest something thinner
than how I imagine a "moot vis". But I do agree with "afgesneden stuk
van een vis".
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Arnaud Fournet
2018-08-29 18:52:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:17:20 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
"When I don't feel like cooking, I simply walk to the market place for
(buying) a piece of frief ("baken") fish."
My Dutch dictionary translates *moot* as "tranche" = slice, not piece.
Apparently, you disagree with this.
I only know the word "moot" in the expression "een moot vis". Fish
doesn't usually lend itself very well to cutting slices. (I interpret
"slice" as something rather thin.)
yes, I agree with this,
that's why "morceau" or "darne" seems more adequate in French than "tranche"
apparently, *een moot vis* does not have any particular shape.
Post by Ruud Harmsen
"afgesneden stuk van een vis" (cut off piece of a fish), "synonym
snee, schijf, plak, reep."
Especially those words "snee, schijf" to me suggest something thinner
than how I imagine a "moot vis". But I do agree with "afgesneden stuk
van een vis".
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
What about Dutch *mop* = 'joke' (French blague)
is there a received etymology?
Ruud Harmsen
2018-08-30 05:12:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:52:26 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
What about Dutch *mop* = 'joke' (French blague)
is there a received etymology?
http://gtb.ivdnt.org/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=WNT&id=M040086

Sense 6. Etymological info is presented rather poorly there, I don't
know what it says, really.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Arnaud Fournet
2018-08-30 05:36:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:52:26 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
What about Dutch *mop* = 'joke' (French blague)
is there a received etymology?
http://gtb.ivdnt.org/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=WNT&id=M040086
Sense 6. Etymological info is presented rather poorly there, I don't
know what it says, really.
I wonder if *mop* "joke" cannot be compared with PIE *membh- "to blame, mock"
Daud Deden
2018-08-31 03:31:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:52:26 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
What about Dutch *mop* = 'joke' (French blague)
is there a received etymology?
http://gtb.ivdnt.org/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=WNT&id=M040086
Sense 6. Etymological info is presented rather poorly there, I don't
know what it says, really.
I wonder if *mop* "joke" cannot be compared with PIE *membh- "to blame, mock"
Mimic? (Mock by miming/acting out with over-expressed faces, grins, grimaces),

Mumps? (Mumbled speech, grimace)

***@Hebrew: swollen

***@ODutch: cup, bowl
***@Dutch ~ mump(l)?
Daud Deden
2018-09-13 23:09:12 UTC
Reply
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Post by Daud Deden
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:52:26 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
What about Dutch *mop* = 'joke' (French blague)
is there a received etymology?
http://gtb.ivdnt.org/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=WNT&id=M040086
Sense 6. Etymological info is presented rather poorly there, I don't
know what it says, really.
I wonder if *mop* "joke" cannot be compared with PIE *membh- "to blame, mock"
Mimic? (Mock by miming/acting out with over-expressed faces, grins, grimaces),
Mumps? (Mumbled speech, grimace)
Beer & Pizza/Pita by 13ka Natufians (No cheese til 7.2ka Croatia)

Liu and her research team analyzed residues from 13,000-year-old stone mortars found in the Raqefet Cave, a Natufian graveyard site located near what is now Haifa, Israel, and discovered evidence of an extensive beer-brewing operation.

"This accounts for the oldest record of man-made alcohol in the world," Liu said.

The researchers believe that the Natufians brewed beer for ritual feasts that venerated the dead.

Read more at https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2018/09/new-evidence-supports-hypothesis-that.html#ftTFUqrYwOrFO46p.99

As Liu notes in the paper, the earliest bread remains to date were recently recovered from the Natufian site in east Jordan. Those could be from 11,600 to 14,600 years old. The beer finding she reports here could be from 11,700 to 13,700 years old.

Ancient beer brewing

Ancient beer is far from what we drink today. It was most likely a multi-ingredient concoction like porridge or thin gruel, said Jiajing Wang, a doctoral student in the Department of East Asian Languages and Cultures and a co-author on the paper. Wang has helped Liu research ancient alcohol since 2015 when they first looked at 5,000-year-old brews in China before turning their attention to studying the Natufian culture.

In the Raqefet Cave, Liu and Wang unearthed residual remains of starch and microscopic plant particles known as phytolith, which are typical in the transformation of wheat and barley to booze.

The researchers believe that the Natufians used a three-stage brewing process. First, starch of wheat or barley would be turned into malt. This happens by germinating the grains in water to then be drained, dried and stored. Then, the malt would be mashed and heated. Finally, it would be left to ferment with airborne wild yeast.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-09-14 02:35:58 UTC
Reply
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Post by Daud Deden
Post by Daud Deden
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:52:26 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
What about Dutch *mop* = 'joke' (French blague)
is there a received etymology?
http://gtb.ivdnt.org/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=WNT&id=M040086
Sense 6. Etymological info is presented rather poorly there, I don't
know what it says, really.
I wonder if *mop* "joke" cannot be compared with PIE *membh- "to blame, mock"
Mimic? (Mock by miming/acting out with over-expressed faces, grins, grimaces),
Mumps? (Mumbled speech, grimace)
Beer & Pizza/Pita by 13ka Natufians (No cheese til 7.2ka Croatia)
Liu and her research team analyzed residues from 13,000-year-old stone mortars found in the Raqefet Cave, a Natufian graveyard site located near what is now Haifa, Israel, and discovered evidence of an extensive beer-brewing operation.
"This accounts for the oldest record of man-made alcohol in the world," Liu said.
The researchers believe that the Natufians brewed beer for ritual feasts that venerated the dead.
Read more at https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2018/09/new-evidence-supports-hypothesis-that.html#ftTFUqrYwOrFO46p.99
As Liu notes in the paper, the earliest bread remains to date were recently recovered from the Natufian site in east Jordan. Those could be from 11,600 to 14,600 years old. The beer finding she reports here could be from 11,700 to 13,700 years old.
Ancient beer brewing
Ancient beer is far from what we drink today. It was most likely a multi-ingredient concoction like porridge or thin gruel, said Jiajing Wang, a doctoral student in the Department of East Asian Languages and Cultures and a co-author on the paper. Wang has helped Liu research ancient alcohol since 2015 when they first looked at 5,000-year-old brews in China before turning their attention to studying the Natufian culture.
In the Raqefet Cave, Liu and Wang unearthed residual remains of starch and microscopic plant particles known as phytolith, which are typical in the transformation of wheat and barley to booze.
The researchers believe that the Natufians used a three-stage brewing process. First, starch of wheat or barley would be turned into malt. This happens by germinating the grains in water to then be drained, dried and stored. Then, the malt would be mashed and heated. Finally, it would be left to ferment with airborne wild yeast.
The _important_ part is that these date long before agriculture.
b***@ihug.co.nz
2018-08-30 10:37:10 UTC
Reply
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Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:17:20 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
"When I don't feel like cooking, I simply walk to the market place for
(buying) a piece of frief ("baken") fish."
My Dutch dictionary translates *moot* as "tranche" = slice, not piece.
Apparently, you disagree with this.
I only know the word "moot" in the expression "een moot vis". Fish
doesn't usually lend itself very well to cutting slices. (I interpret
"slice" as something rather thin.)
yes, I agree with this,
that's why "morceau" or "darne" seems more adequate in French than "tranche"
apparently, *een moot vis* does not have any particular shape.
Post by Ruud Harmsen
"afgesneden stuk van een vis" (cut off piece of a fish), "synonym
snee, schijf, plak, reep."
Especially those words "snee, schijf" to me suggest something thinner
than how I imagine a "moot vis". But I do agree with "afgesneden stuk
van een vis".
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
What about Dutch *mop* = 'joke' (French blague)
is there a received etymology?
I thought I'd look at what OED has from English, but it turned out to be
more than I could handle:

† mop, v.1 to bewilder (1425-)
mop, v.2 intr. To make a grimace, to make faces. Chiefly in to mop
and mow (1567-)
Origin uncertain; perhaps imitative of movements of the lips,
and probably related to similar formations in other Germanic
Compare Dutch †moppen to mutter, mumble, sulk, pull a face (1678),
early modern German mupfen to mumble, mutter, grumble (16th cent.),
German regional (Swiss) müpfen to pull a face, mock, nudge; also
early modern German Mupf (15th cent.), Muff derisive facial expression
with downturned mouth (German regional Muff sour-faced person, grumbler,
German regional (Swiss) Mupf person who puts on airs), all perhaps
ultimately of imitative origin. Compare also (perhaps ultimately
representing a variant of the same base) German regional (Low German)
mopen to gape, stare, Norwegian måpe to gape, Old Swedish mopa to make
a fool of (Swedish regional mopa, (Skåne) måva to look discontented, sulk), early modern Danish maabe, mabe to sulk (Danish måbe to gawp, gape).

† mop, n.1 1. A fool, a simpleton (1330-)
mope, n. 1. A fool, a simpleton; a slow-witted or inept person.(1390-)
Probably related to mope n., mope v., and mopish adj.1; further
etymology uncertain.
German regional Mops when applied to a person appears to be related to
Dutch moppen (see mop v.2) and is probably not related to the present
word: see discussion s.v. mops n.2
mop, n.3 A grotesque grimace or grin, as made by a monkey. Chiefly in
mops and mows.(1475-)

I give up...
António Marques
2018-08-30 12:56:22 UTC
Reply
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Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:17:20 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
"When I don't feel like cooking, I simply walk to the market place for
(buying) a piece of frief ("baken") fish."
My Dutch dictionary translates *moot* as "tranche" = slice, not piece.
Apparently, you disagree with this.
I only know the word "moot" in the expression "een moot vis". Fish
doesn't usually lend itself very well to cutting slices. (I interpret
"slice" as something rather thin.)
yes, I agree with this,
that's why "morceau" or "darne" seems more adequate in French than "tranche"
apparently, *een moot vis* does not have any particular shape.
Post by Ruud Harmsen
"afgesneden stuk van een vis" (cut off piece of a fish), "synonym
snee, schijf, plak, reep."
Especially those words "snee, schijf" to me suggest something thinner
than how I imagine a "moot vis". But I do agree with "afgesneden stuk
van een vis".
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
What about Dutch *mop* = 'joke' (French blague)
is there a received etymology?
I thought I'd look at what OED has from English, but it turned out to be
† mop, v.1 to bewilder (1425-)
mop, v.2 intr. To make a grimace, to make faces. Chiefly in to mop
and mow (1567-)
Origin uncertain; perhaps imitative of movements of the lips,
and probably related to similar formations in other Germanic
Compare Dutch †moppen to mutter, mumble, sulk, pull a face (1678),
early modern German mupfen to mumble, mutter, grumble (16th cent.),
German regional (Swiss) müpfen to pull a face, mock, nudge; also
early modern German Mupf (15th cent.), Muff derisive facial expression
with downturned mouth (German regional Muff sour-faced person, grumbler,
German regional (Swiss) Mupf person who puts on airs), all perhaps
ultimately of imitative origin. Compare also (perhaps ultimately
representing a variant of the same base) German regional (Low German)
mopen to gape, stare, Norwegian måpe to gape, Old Swedish mopa to make
a fool of (Swedish regional mopa, (Skåne) måva to look discontented,
sulk), early modern Danish maabe, mabe to sulk (Danish måbe to gawp, gape).
† mop, n.1 1. A fool, a simpleton (1330-)
mope, n. 1. A fool, a simpleton; a slow-witted or inept person.(1390-)
Probably related to mope n., mope v., and mopish adj.1; further
etymology uncertain.
German regional Mops when applied to a person appears to be related to
Dutch moppen (see mop v.2) and is probably not related to the present
word: see discussion s.v. mops n.2
mop, n.3 A grotesque grimace or grin, as made by a monkey. Chiefly in
mops and mows.(1475-)
I give up...
And there’s the moops.

How is it that they discuss the verb without mentioning ‘mope’??
Ruud Harmsen
2018-08-30 05:08:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Wed, 29 Aug 2018 04:22:57 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:17:20 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
"When I don't feel like cooking, I simply walk to the market place for
(buying) a piece of frief ("baken") fish."
My Dutch dictionary translates *moot* as "tranche" = slice, not piece.
Apparently, you disagree with this.
I only know the word "moot" in the expression "een moot vis". Fish
doesn't usually lend itself very well to cutting slices. (I interpret
"slice" as something rather thin.)
yes, I agree with this,
that's why "morceau" or "darne" seems more adequate in French than "tranche"
apparently, *een moot vis* does not have any particular shape.
Morceau, stuk, brok, yes, much better.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Peter T. Daniels
2018-08-28 12:37:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:37:13 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:58:11 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
What do you mean by «Dutch moot "slice"»?
Apparently, you understood precisely what I meant !
Only after a while. I read "moot" as the English word, and overlooked
the implicit comma or equal sign between moot and slice. Moreover, I
know the word "moot" only in connection with fish, and then it means a
cut piece rather than a slice.
http://youtu.be/zL0dA98snZw
"Als ik geen zin heb om te koken, dan loop ik even naar markt voor een
moot gebakken vis."
"When I don't feel like cooking, I simply walk to the market place for
(buying) a piece of frief ("baken") fish."
My Dutch dictionary translates *moot* as "tranche" = slice, not piece.
Apparently, you disagree with this.
How would you make "pieces" of fish other than by slicing?

Maybe their language is impoverished in the gastronomic semantic field.
Daud Deden
2018-08-28 15:06:52 UTC
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Permalink
The -oot of moot ~ out/off/other/otli/w.hole.y/iota/jot/dot.
Daud Deden
2018-09-30 16:48:21 UTC
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Post by Daud Deden
The -oot of moot ~ out/off/other/otli/w.hole.y/iota/jot/dot.
moot

bit.e

method/measure/mensurate/menstruate/minima-maxima
ped/***@Fch/pace

Italo
2018-08-28 17:36:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:37:13 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:58:11 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
What do you mean by «Dutch moot "slice"»?
Apparently, you understood precisely what I meant !
Only after a while. I read "moot" as the English word, and overlooked
the implicit comma or equal sign between moot and slice. Moreover, I
know the word "moot" only in connection with fish, and then it means a
cut piece rather than a slice.
http://youtu.be/zL0dA98snZw
"Als ik geen zin heb om te koken, dan loop ik even naar markt voor een
moot gebakken vis."
"When I don't feel like cooking, I simply walk to the market place for
(buying) a piece of frief ("baken") fish."
My Dutch dictionary translates *moot* as "tranche" = slice, not piece.
Apparently, you disagree with this.
How would you make "pieces" of fish other than by slicing?
Moten are usually chopped. A "slice" of fish suggests a fillet, which is not a moot. A moot is a chunk, like a tuna cut across into chunks.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Maybe their language is impoverished in the gastronomic semantic field.
The rich gastrointestinal semantic field makes up for that.
--
b o y c o t t a m e r i c a n p r o d u c t s
Peter T. Daniels
2018-08-28 18:28:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Italo
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:37:13 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:58:11 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
What do you mean by «Dutch moot "slice"»?
Apparently, you understood precisely what I meant !
Only after a while. I read "moot" as the English word, and overlooked
the implicit comma or equal sign between moot and slice. Moreover, I
know the word "moot" only in connection with fish, and then it means a
cut piece rather than a slice.
http://youtu.be/zL0dA98snZw
"Als ik geen zin heb om te koken, dan loop ik even naar markt voor een
moot gebakken vis."
"When I don't feel like cooking, I simply walk to the market place for
(buying) a piece of frief ("baken") fish."
My Dutch dictionary translates *moot* as "tranche" = slice, not piece.
Apparently, you disagree with this.
How would you make "pieces" of fish other than by slicing?
Moten are usually chopped. A "slice" of fish suggests a fillet, which is not a moot. A moot is a chunk, like a tuna cut across into chunks.
I was thinking that the usual way to serve other than an entire fish is
in the form of "steaks," which are indeed slices -- slabs -- of e.g.
tuna or salmon.

"Chopped" suggests to me gefilte fish (I don't know if there's a non-
Yiddish term for that in English), which is chopped fish (whitefish-
and-pike is a common version) with light seasoning, formed into elongat-
ed balls, cooked (boiled, perhaps?), and chilled; served with prepared
horseradish.

The less expensive sort of canned tuna is labeled "chunk." It's inchoate
pieces that can be mashed with mayonnaise and seasoning to make tuna
salad.
Post by Italo
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Maybe their language is impoverished in the gastronomic semantic field.
The rich gastrointestinal semantic field makes up for that.
:-)
Post by Italo
--
b o y c o t t a m e r i c a n p r o d u c t s
Soon you won't be having to worry about that. Trump won't let Europeans
import American products.
Ruud Harmsen
2018-08-28 19:37:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Tue, 28 Aug 2018 11:28:38 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Italo
b o y c o t t a m e r i c a n p r o d u c t s
Soon you won't be having to worry about that. Trump won't let Europeans
import American products.
That's good. They don't fit our screws. We are metric here, like all
the rest of the world except Liberia and Birma.

Will the UK reimperalise after Brexit? Serious question.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
wugi
2018-08-28 19:50:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Tue, 28 Aug 2018 11:28:38 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Italo
b o y c o t t a m e r i c a n p r o d u c t s
Soon you won't be having to worry about that. Trump won't let Europeans
import American products.
That's good. They don't fit our screws. We are metric here, like all
(nor our quality and environmental requirements, as whispered at times)
Post by Ruud Harmsen
the rest of the world except Liberia and Birma.
Will the UK reimperalise after Brexit? Serious question.
With a view to discontinue buying from and selling to the metric world?
--
guido wugi
António Marques
2018-08-28 21:37:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by wugi
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Tue, 28 Aug 2018 11:28:38 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Italo
b o y c o t t a m e r i c a n p r o d u c t s
Soon you won't be having to worry about that. Trump won't let Europeans
import American products.
That's good. They don't fit our screws. We are metric here, like all
(nor our quality and environmental requirements, as whispered at times)
Post by Ruud Harmsen
the rest of the world except Liberia and Birma.
Will the UK reimperalise after Brexit? Serious question.
With a view to discontinue buying from and selling to the metric world?
Just THINK of the OPPORTUNITIES!
Ruud Harmsen
2018-08-28 19:31:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Italo
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Only after a while. I read "moot" as the English word, and overlooked
the implicit comma or equal sign between moot and slice. Moreover, I
know the word "moot" only in connection with fish, and then it means a
cut piece rather than a slice.
http://youtu.be/zL0dA98snZw
"Als ik geen zin heb om te koken, dan loop ik even naar markt voor een
moot gebakken vis."
"When I don't feel like cooking, I simply walk to the market place for
(buying) a piece of frief ("baken") fish."
My Dutch dictionary translates *moot* as "tranche" = slice, not piece.
Apparently, you disagree with this.
How would you make "pieces" of fish other than by slicing?
Moten are usually chopped. A "slice" of fish suggests a fillet, which is not a moot. A moot is a chunk, like a tuna cut across into chunks.
Exactly. You really are Dutch, aren't you?
Post by Italo
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Maybe their language is impoverished in the gastronomic semantic field.
The rich gastrointestinal semantic field makes up for that.
Yeah, right.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Ruud Harmsen
2018-08-28 19:30:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Tue, 28 Aug 2018 05:37:29 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:37:13 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:58:11 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
What do you mean by «Dutch moot "slice"»?
Apparently, you understood precisely what I meant !
Only after a while. I read "moot" as the English word, and overlooked
the implicit comma or equal sign between moot and slice. Moreover, I
know the word "moot" only in connection with fish, and then it means a
cut piece rather than a slice.
http://youtu.be/zL0dA98snZw
"Als ik geen zin heb om te koken, dan loop ik even naar markt voor een
moot gebakken vis."
"When I don't feel like cooking, I simply walk to the market place for
(buying) a piece of frief ("baken") fish."
My Dutch dictionary translates *moot* as "tranche" = slice, not piece.
Apparently, you disagree with this.
How would you make "pieces" of fish other than by slicing?
Slices for me are thin. A moot is not thin.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Maybe their language is impoverished in the gastronomic semantic field.
Of course. We eat to stay alive, not to enjoy it.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Ruud Harmsen
2018-08-24 19:54:07 UTC
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Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:58:11 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
O! "een moot vis", a piece of fish.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/moot#Etymology

https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/_tij003194201_01/_tij003194201_01_0007.php
"Een voorbeeld bij een znw. biedt waarschijnlijk moot, ‘afgesneden
stuk vlees of vis’ (sinds de 16de eeuw) waarnaast mook (sinds de 17de
eeuw). De afl. van moot staat niet helemaal vast, maar voor de oude
etymologie die het woord met got. maitan, ‘snijden’, in verband brengt
is toch veel te zeggen. "
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Arnaud Fournet
2018-08-26 17:38:17 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:58:11 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Is there a received etymology of Dutch moot "slice" ?
O! "een moot vis", a piece of fish.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/moot#Etymology
https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/_tij003194201_01/_tij003194201_01_0007.php
"Een voorbeeld bij een znw. biedt waarschijnlijk moot, ‘afgesneden
stuk vlees of vis’ (sinds de 16de eeuw) waarnaast mook (sinds de 17de
eeuw). De afl. van moot staat niet helemaal vast, maar voor de oude
etymologie die het woord met got. maitan, ‘snijden’, in verband brengt
is toch veel te zeggen. "
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Is there somethere a list of Dutch words that people usually consider of unclear or substratic origin (like Nord-West-Block etc.)?
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