Discussion:
Olympic question(s)
(too old to reply)
Peter T. Daniels
2012-07-28 04:23:02 UTC
Permalink
Whom, exactly, were the orators addressing with "Your Majesty, Your
Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses"?

Are the plural Majesties sundry royalty of other nations, or are some
people in England other than Her Majesty called Majesty? Just how many
Royal Highnesses are there? (I believe Prince Philip is one.)

NBC chose not to broadcast -- or even mention -- the administration of
the Olympic Oath. Did it take place?

(As usual, they pretended they were showing the event in real time,
even though their coverage began at 7:30 EDT and ended at midnight.)
b***@ihug.co.nz
2012-07-28 05:31:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Whom, exactly, were the orators addressing with "Your Majesty, Your
Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses"?
Are the plural Majesties sundry royalty of other nations, or are some
people in England other than Her Majesty called Majesty? Just how many
Royal Highnesses are there? (I believe Prince Philip is one.)
Yes, I think "Majesties" would have to be Royal Personages from other
countries; there is only one "Majesty" in the UK. "Highnesses" could
be in-house, but Philip was the only one actually shown.

Having spent a couple of hours watching this stuff, I found it
frustrating trying to find information on what I had been seeing.
(BBC's jumpy, scrappy editing didn't help at all.) Anybody know of a
useful, authoritative site?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
NBC chose not to broadcast -- or even mention -- the administration of
the Olympic Oath. Did it take place?
Yes, three times as a matter of fact. The Athletes' (which mentioned
doping) was taken by a British tae-kwan-do-iste. Then there were
separate ones with different wording for judges/officials and for
trainers.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
(As usual, they pretended they were showing the event in real time,
even though their coverage began at 7:30 EDT and ended at midnight.)
I think ours was genuinely live, from 7am to after noon, by which
point it was obviously way past Sir Paul's bedtime.

As usual the country names had some points of interest. Poor old
Macedonia had to parade under "F", because of you-know-who. But the
Taiwanese, who have to be referred to by the bizarre "Chinese
Taipei" (apparently the only thing the PRC and the rest could agree
on) were at least under "T". I forgot to notice how "Chinese Taipei"
translates in French.

And we had the "Independent Olympic Athletes" (under "I" of course) --
who turn out to be people from countries which for various reasons
don't have a functioning national Olympic Committee. There were three,
I think -- from Netherlands Antilles and South Sudan -- and they
looked delighted to be there.
Nasti J
2012-07-28 06:56:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
And we had the "Independent Olympic Athletes" (under "I" of course) --
who turn out to be people from countries which for various reasons
don't have a functioning national Olympic Committee. There were three,
I think -- from Netherlands Antilles and South Sudan -- and they
looked delighted to be there.
There's actually another one who's still training for the marathon in
Flagstaff AZ and who reportedly doesn't have a visa to get to London,
but since it's on the last day of the Olympics nobody is very worried
- yet.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2012-07-28 09:02:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
NBC chose not to broadcast -- or even mention -- the administration of
the Olympic Oath. Did it take place?
Yes, three times as a matter of fact. The Athletes' (which mentioned
doping) was taken by a British tae-kwan-do-iste. Then there were
separate ones with different wording for judges/officials and for
trainers.
The words of the oaths are here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Oath

One thing that struck me while watching the oath-taking was the word
"Olympism" in the coach's oath.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Joachim Pense
2012-07-28 09:11:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
One thing that struck me while watching the oath-taking was the word
"Olympism" in the coach's oath.
One thing that struck _me_ was that in the clip showing the river Thames
(from source to East London) they played a short bit of the Sex Pistols'
"god save the Queen (she ain't no human bein')". She was present - did
she notice? Was she amused?

Actually, when the GB team walked in, we could see her watching her
fingernails, not the team.

Joachim
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2012-07-28 09:56:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joachim Pense
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
One thing that struck me while watching the oath-taking was the word
"Olympism" in the coach's oath.
One thing that struck _me_ was that in the clip showing the river Thames
(from source to East London) they played a short bit of the Sex Pistols'
"god save the Queen (she ain't no human bein')". She was present - did
she notice? Was she amused?
Actually, when the GB team walked in, we could see her watching her
fingernails, not the team.
It was past her bedtime - well past her bedtime.

She is a busy lady and goes to bed early. This is not a surprise but I
hadn't seen it mentioned until last year. During the Queen's official
visit to the Republic of Ireland she attended a concert. As is customary
she met all the performers afterwards. One of the peolpe was the singer
Mary Byrne who had competed on the UK TV show The X Factor.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/44dt5c3

THE Queen has revealed she records X Factor — so she NEVER misses
an episode.

Her Majesty told former contestant Mary Byrne she is a big fan of
the show.

Mary, 51, sang at a Dublin concert to round off the Royal visit to
Ireland.

The former Tesco worker — fifth in last year’s series — met the
Queen after singing U2’s classic All I Want Is You. Mary revealed:
“She said, ‘You are the lady off The X Factor. Your song was
fabulous’.

“I asked if she watched the show. She said, ‘It could be too late
for me but I do watch it the next day’. They record it for her.”
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Arnaud F.
2012-07-28 09:20:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
NBC chose not to broadcast -- or even mention -- the administration of
the Olympic Oath. Did it take place?
Yes, three times as a matter of fact. The Athletes' (which mentioned
doping) was taken by a British tae-kwan-do-iste. Then there were
separate ones with different wording for judges/officials and for
trainers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Oath
One thing that struck me while watching the oath-taking was the word
"Olympism" in the coach's oath.
***

Maybe it's a direct calque of French,

the word "Olympisme" exists at least since 1910.

There's one reference in English: "The Outlook" Pub. Co., 1909 with Olympism.

A.
GordonD
2012-07-28 11:45:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Whom, exactly, were the orators addressing with "Your Majesty, Your
Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses"?
Are the plural Majesties sundry royalty of other nations, or are some
people in England other than Her Majesty called Majesty? Just how many
Royal Highnesses are there? (I believe Prince Philip is one.)
Yes, I think "Majesties" would have to be Royal Personages from other
countries; there is only one "Majesty" in the UK. "Highnesses" could
be in-house, but Philip was the only one actually shown.
Kate and William were there, along with Harry the Half-Blood Prince.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

"Slipped the surly bonds of Earth...to touch the face of God."
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2012-07-28 12:19:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by GordonD
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Whom, exactly, were the orators addressing with "Your Majesty, Your
Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses"?
Are the plural Majesties sundry royalty of other nations, or are some
people in England other than Her Majesty called Majesty? Just how many
Royal Highnesses are there? (I believe Prince Philip is one.)
Yes, I think "Majesties" would have to be Royal Personages from other
countries; there is only one "Majesty" in the UK. "Highnesses" could
be in-house, but Philip was the only one actually shown.
Kate and William were there, along with Harry the Half-Blood Prince.
Is there any evidence that Harry is "half-blood"?

I've heard jokes about his gingery hair. However, he shares that with
his uncle Charles (Spencer).

Harry:
Loading Image...

His uncle:
Loading Image...
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
GordonD
2012-07-28 13:13:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by GordonD
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Whom, exactly, were the orators addressing with "Your Majesty, Your
Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses"?
Are the plural Majesties sundry royalty of other nations, or are some
people in England other than Her Majesty called Majesty? Just how many
Royal Highnesses are there? (I believe Prince Philip is one.)
Yes, I think "Majesties" would have to be Royal Personages from other
countries; there is only one "Majesty" in the UK. "Highnesses" could
be in-house, but Philip was the only one actually shown.
Kate and William were there, along with Harry the Half-Blood Prince.
Is there any evidence that Harry is "half-blood"?
Of course there is. The URL with the proof is...hang on, there's someone at
the door...
Lewis
2012-07-28 20:14:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by GordonD
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Whom, exactly, were the orators addressing with "Your Majesty, Your
Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses"?
Are the plural Majesties sundry royalty of other nations, or are some
people in England other than Her Majesty called Majesty? Just how many
Royal Highnesses are there? (I believe Prince Philip is one.)
Yes, I think "Majesties" would have to be Royal Personages from other
countries; there is only one "Majesty" in the UK. "Highnesses" could
be in-house, but Philip was the only one actually shown.
Kate and William were there, along with Harry the Half-Blood Prince.
When did HArry pick up that nickname? And why?
--
Bishops move diagonally. That's why they often turn up where the kings
don't expect them to be.
Guy Barry
2012-07-28 20:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by GordonD
Kate and William were there, along with Harry the Half-Blood Prince.
When did HArry pick up that nickname? And why?
I'd never actually heard it before, but I'd guess it's partly a J.K. Rowling
reference and partly a reference to the long-established rumour that Charles
isn't his father.

--
Guy Barry

Harlan Messinger
2012-07-28 12:40:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Whom, exactly, were the orators addressing with "Your Majesty, Your
Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses"?
Are the plural Majesties sundry royalty of other nations, or are some
people in England other than Her Majesty called Majesty? Just how many
Royal Highnesses are there? (I believe Prince Philip is one.)
Yes, I think "Majesties" would have to be Royal Personages from other
countries; there is only one "Majesty" in the UK. "Highnesses" could
be in-house, but Philip was the only one actually shown.
Having spent a couple of hours watching this stuff, I found it
frustrating trying to find information on what I had been seeing.
(BBC's jumpy, scrappy editing didn't help at all.) Anybody know of a
useful, authoritative site?
No, but I can tell you about the flying pig in the opening Thames montage.
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
NBC chose not to broadcast -- or even mention -- the administration of
the Olympic Oath. Did it take place?
Yes, three times as a matter of fact. The Athletes' (which mentioned
doping) was taken by a British tae-kwan-do-iste. Then there were
separate ones with different wording for judges/officials and for
trainers.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
(As usual, they pretended they were showing the event in real time,
even though their coverage began at 7:30 EDT and ended at midnight.)
I think ours was genuinely live, from 7am to after noon, by which
point it was obviously way past Sir Paul's bedtime.
As usual the country names had some points of interest. Poor old
Macedonia had to parade under "F", because of you-know-who. But the
Taiwanese, who have to be referred to by the bizarre "Chinese
Taipei" (apparently the only thing the PRC and the rest could agree
on) were at least under "T". I forgot to notice how "Chinese Taipei"
translates in French.
The explanations for Macedonia being filed under F, as well as for
putting Democratic People's Republic of Korea and Democratic Republic of
the Congo under D, make no more sense than putting United States of
Mexico under U or People's Republic of China under P.
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
And we had the "Independent Olympic Athletes" (under "I" of course) --
who turn out to be people from countries which for various reasons
don't have a functioning national Olympic Committee. There were three,
I think -- from Netherlands Antilles and South Sudan -- and they
looked delighted to be there.
Peter T. Daniels
2012-07-28 12:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Whom, exactly, were the orators addressing with "Your Majesty, Your
Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses"?
Are the plural Majesties sundry royalty of other nations, or are some
people in England other than Her Majesty called Majesty? Just how many
Royal Highnesses are there? (I believe Prince Philip is one.)
Yes, I think "Majesties" would have to be Royal Personages from other
countries; there is only one "Majesty" in the UK. "Highnesses" could
be in-house, but Philip was the only one actually shown.
Not Charles, William, and maybe Henry??
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Having spent a couple of hours watching this stuff, I found it
frustrating trying to find information on what I had been seeing.
(BBC's jumpy, scrappy editing didn't help at all.) Anybody know of a
useful, authoritative site?
nbcolympics.com will be streaming everything, they say.
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
NBC chose not to broadcast -- or even mention -- the administration of
the Olympic Oath. Did it take place?
Yes, three times as a matter of fact. The Athletes' (which mentioned
doping) was taken by a British tae-kwan-do-iste. Then there were
separate ones with different wording for judges/officials and for
trainers.
:Trainers" would be new, vis-a-vis previous ones.
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
(As usual, they pretended they were showing the event in real time,
even though their coverage began at 7:30 EDT and ended at midnight.)
I think ours was genuinely live, from 7am to after noon, by which
point it was obviously way past Sir Paul's bedtime.
Bob Costas and Matt Lauer agreed that he was "overcome with emotion" on seeing the crowds and so missed the first couple of lines.
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
As usual the country names had some points of interest. Poor old
Macedonia had to parade under "F", because of you-know-who. But the
Taiwanese, who have to be referred to by the bizarre "Chinese
Taipei" (apparently the only thing the PRC and the rest could agree
on) were at least under "T". I forgot to notice how "Chinese Taipei"
translates in French.
They noted that Ghana is in the same alphabetical spot as Gold Coast would have been. Cote d'Ivoire was under C. They missed the /w/. Cape Verde rhymed with "bird" -- but they got Kiribati right.
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
And we had the "Independent Olympic Athletes" (under "I" of course) --
who turn out to be people from countries which for various reasons
don't have a functioning national Olympic Committee. There were three,
I think -- from Netherlands Antilles and South Sudan -- and they
looked delighted to be there.
The three Former Netherlands Antilleans were there, but the one South Sudanian is still in Flagstaff, AZ with visa problems -- but he's a marathoner so doesn't have to actually get there until the last day. (Sounds like NBC knows more than NZ BBC!)

Aruba had a contingent; why not "Bonaire and Curacao" if they don't whnt "Netherlands" in their name?

British Virgin Islands under V, but (US) Virgin Islands under V. They didn't note that Samoa used to be all the way in the back under Western Samoa.
Peter T. Daniels
2012-07-28 12:55:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Whom, exactly, were the orators addressing with "Your Majesty, Your
Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses"?
Are the plural Majesties sundry royalty of other nations, or are some
people in England other than Her Majesty called Majesty? Just how many
Royal Highnesses are there? (I believe Prince Philip is one.)
Yes, I think "Majesties" would have to be Royal Personages from other
countries; there is only one "Majesty" in the UK. "Highnesses" could
be in-house, but Philip was the only one actually shown.
Not Charles, William, and maybe Henry??
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Having spent a couple of hours watching this stuff, I found it
frustrating trying to find information on what I had been seeing.
(BBC's jumpy, scrappy editing didn't help at all.) Anybody know of a
useful, authoritative site?
nbcolympics.com will be streaming everything, they say.
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
NBC chose not to broadcast -- or even mention -- the administration of
the Olympic Oath. Did it take place?
Yes, three times as a matter of fact. The Athletes' (which mentioned
doping) was taken by a British tae-kwan-do-iste. Then there were
separate ones with different wording for judges/officials and for
trainers.
:Trainers" would be new, vis-a-vis previous ones.
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
(As usual, they pretended they were showing the event in real time,
even though their coverage began at 7:30 EDT and ended at midnight.)
I think ours was genuinely live, from 7am to after noon, by which
point it was obviously way past Sir Paul's bedtime.
Bob Costas and Matt Lauer agreed that he was "overcome with emotion" on seeing the crowds and so missed the first couple of lines.
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
As usual the country names had some points of interest. Poor old
Macedonia had to parade under "F", because of you-know-who. But the
Taiwanese, who have to be referred to by the bizarre "Chinese
Taipei" (apparently the only thing the PRC and the rest could agree
on) were at least under "T". I forgot to notice how "Chinese Taipei"
translates in French.
They noted that Ghana is in the same alphabetical spot as Gold Coast would have been. Cote d'Ivoire was under C. They missed the /w/. Cape Verde rhymed with "bird" -- but they got Kiribati right.
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
And we had the "Independent Olympic Athletes" (under "I" of course) --
who turn out to be people from countries which for various reasons
don't have a functioning national Olympic Committee. There were three,
I think -- from Netherlands Antilles and South Sudan -- and they
looked delighted to be there.
The three Former Netherlands Antilleans were there, but the one South Sudanian is still in Flagstaff, AZ with visa problems -- but he's a marathoner so doesn't have to actually get there until the last day. (Sounds like NBC knows more than NZ BBC!)
Aruba had a contingent; why not "Bonaire and Curacao" if they don't whnt "Netherlands" in their name?
British Virgin Islands under V
B

, but (US) Virgin Islands under V. They didn't note that Samoa used to be all the way in the back under Western Samoa.
Whiskers
2012-07-28 14:39:01 UTC
Permalink
[...]
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Having spent a couple of hours watching this stuff, I found it
frustrating trying to find information on what I had been seeing.
(BBC's jumpy, scrappy editing didn't help at all.) Anybody know of a
useful, authoritative site?
[...]

The BBC <http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/18906710?date=20120725>

The official Olympic Games web site
<http://www.london2012.com/spectators/ceremonies/opening-ceremony/>

I don't know of a written description and explanation of every detail;
perhaps the organisers will release something now that the secrets have
been revealed.

I'm sure the Brits here will be happy to offer explanations for
particular aspects or features.

I'm curious as to what was happening in the stadium while the BBC was
broadcasting footage from elsewhere.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Jerry Friedman
2012-07-28 13:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Whom, exactly, were the orators addressing with "Your Majesty, Your
Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses"?
Are the plural Majesties sundry royalty of other nations, or are some
people in England other than Her Majesty called Majesty? Just how many
Royal Highnesses are there? (I believe Prince Philip is one.)
...

For the UK, with help from Wikipedia, I can find Philip; Charles and
Camilla, Anne, Andrew, Edward and Sophie; William and Kate, Harry.
There seems to be some question about whether T. R. H. Prince and
Princess Edward's children are "technically" Royal Highnesses.

I know nothing about the use of this style in other royal families or
who might have been at the Olympic opening ceremonies.

--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2012-07-28 13:53:55 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 06:26:09 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Whom, exactly, were the orators addressing with "Your Majesty, Your
Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses"?
Are the plural Majesties sundry royalty of other nations, or are some
people in England other than Her Majesty called Majesty? Just how many
Royal Highnesses are there? (I believe Prince Philip is one.)
...
For the UK, with help from Wikipedia, I can find Philip; Charles and
Camilla, Anne, Andrew, Edward and Sophie; William and Kate, Harry.
There seems to be some question about whether T. R. H. Prince and
Princess Edward's children are "technically" Royal Highnesses.
The title Royal Highness is granted specifically. It is not automatic.

As for Prince Edward's children:
http://www.royal.gov.uk/ThecurrentRoyalFamily/TheEarlofWessex/Marriageandfamily.aspx

Prince Edward ...
Upon marriage Miss Sophie Rhys-Jones became known as HRH The
Countess of Wessex.

Their Royal Highnesses have a young daughter, Louise, ... and a baby
son, [James]...

The couple decided, with The Queen's agreement, that their children
would use the courtesy titles as sons or daughters of an Earl rather
than the style Prince or Princess.

Hence: Lady Louise Windsor and James, Viscount Severn.
Post by Jerry Friedman
I know nothing about the use of this style in other royal families or
who might have been at the Olympic opening ceremonies.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Jerry Friedman
2012-07-28 15:43:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 06:26:09 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Jerry Friedman
There seems to be some question about whether T. R. H. Prince and
Princess Edward's children are "technically" Royal Highnesses.
The title Royal Highness is granted specifically. It is not automatic.
As for Prince Edward's children:http://www.royal.gov.uk/ThecurrentRoyalFamily/TheEarlofWessex/Marriag...
    Prince Edward ...
    Upon marriage Miss Sophie Rhys-Jones became known as HRH The
    Countess of Wessex.
    Their Royal Highnesses have a young daughter, Louise, ... and a baby
    son, [James]...
    The couple decided, with The Queen's agreement, that their children
    would use the courtesy titles as sons or daughters of an Earl rather
    than the style Prince or Princess.
Hence: Lady Louise Windsor and James, Viscount Severn.
Wikipedia says, "Letters patent issued in 1917 (and still remaining in
force today) assign a princely status and the style of Royal Highness
to all male-line grandchildren of a monarch. Therefore, all else being
equal [sic], James would have been styled as His Royal Highness Prince
James of Wessex.[9] However, when his parents married, the Queen, via
a Buckingham Palace press release, announced that (in hopes of
avoiding some of the burdens associated with royal titles) their
children would be styled as the children of an earl, rather than as
princes or princesses. The eldest son of an earl is customarily
accorded one of his father's subsidiary titles by courtesy, thus James
is named as [sic] Viscount Severn, and court communications never
refer to him as a prince of the United Kingdom, but simply as Viscount
Severn.[10] There are two opposing opinions as to whether or not James
is "legally" a prince and His Royal Highness: Some experts consider
the Queen's press release to not have enough legal force to override
the 1917 letters patent, whereas other experts contend that the
Queen's will, however expressed, is law in matters of royal titles and
styles.[11][12]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James,_Viscount_Severn

For what that and the cited sources are worth. Note 12 (which is not
from an expert) refers to this as "the Wessex question".

Obaue: "Sic"s mine. I don't see "all else being equal" as having the
meaning of "in the expected course of things" or "if nothing relevant
had been done", as it seems to here. Did it acquire that meaning
while I wasn't looking?

And I just can't deal with "named as" where "named" would work.
Anyway, shouldn't it be "titled"? Besides, that sentence is a comma
splice.

--
Jerry Friedman isn't getting started on "still remaining in force
today".
Jerry Friedman
2012-07-28 15:46:18 UTC
Permalink
On Jul 28, 9:43 am, Jerry Friedman <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
...
"the Wessex question".
...

P.S.: Stan Brown should be along soon with some helpful comments.

--
Jerry Friedman
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