Discussion:
Is the "t" of "Beto" (as in O'Rourke) a native sound of American English?
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s***@gmail.com
2018-09-15 23:36:53 UTC
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People like Chris Mathews of "Hardball" claim they cannot pronounce it - but one would assume that native English speakers Beto grew up with in Texas wouldn't have any difficulty saying it.
b***@ihug.co.nz
2018-09-16 00:48:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
People like Chris Mathews of "Hardball" claim they cannot pronounce it - but one would assume that native English speakers Beto grew up with in Texas wouldn't have any difficulty saying it.
Perhaps a little background information would help here.
Who is Beto?
What is O'Rourke?
Who is Chris Mathews?
What is "Hardball"?
Peter T. Daniels
2018-09-16 00:51:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by s***@gmail.com
People like Chris Mathews of "Hardball" claim they cannot pronounce it - but one would assume that native English speakers Beto grew up with in Texas wouldn't have any difficulty saying it.
Perhaps a little background information would help here.
Who is Beto?
Democratic senatorial opponent of Ted Cruz (R-TX)
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is O'Rourke?
his last name
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Who is Chris Mathews?
liberal commentator and talk-show host
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is "Hardball"?
his program

"Beto" is left over from his childhood nickname for "Robert," a very
common form in his native El Paso
b***@ihug.co.nz
2018-09-16 01:30:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by s***@gmail.com
People like Chris Mathews of "Hardball" claim they cannot pronounce it - but one would assume that native English speakers Beto grew up with in Texas wouldn't have any difficulty saying it.
Perhaps a little background information would help here.
Who is Beto?
Democratic senatorial opponent of Ted Cruz (R-TX)
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is O'Rourke?
his last name
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Who is Chris Mathews?
liberal commentator and talk-show host
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is "Hardball"?
his program
"Beto" is left over from his childhood nickname for "Robert," a very
common form in his native El Paso
Well, thank you!
So maybe you can answer the obvious next question:
What is the problem with the "t"?
Peter T. Daniels
2018-09-16 03:01:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by s***@gmail.com
People like Chris Mathews of "Hardball" claim they cannot pronounce it - but one would assume that native English speakers Beto grew up with in Texas wouldn't have any difficulty saying it.
Perhaps a little background information would help here.
Who is Beto?
Democratic senatorial opponent of Ted Cruz (R-TX)
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is O'Rourke?
his last name
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Who is Chris Mathews?
liberal commentator and talk-show host
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is "Hardball"?
his program
"Beto" is left over from his childhood nickname for "Robert," a very
common form in his native El Paso
Well, thank you!
What is the problem with the "t"?
Maybe identifying "skpf..." would help.
s***@gmail.com
2018-09-16 11:22:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by s***@gmail.com
People like Chris Mathews of "Hardball" claim they cannot pronounce it - but one would assume that native English speakers Beto grew up with in Texas wouldn't have any difficulty saying it.
Perhaps a little background information would help here.
Who is Beto?
Democratic senatorial opponent of Ted Cruz (R-TX)
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is O'Rourke?
his last name
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Who is Chris Mathews?
liberal commentator and talk-show host
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is "Hardball"?
his program
"Beto" is left over from his childhood nickname for "Robert," a very
common form in his native El Paso
Well, thank you!
What is the problem with the "t"?
It is a dental [t] - which is officially not a native American English sound - but is it native for Texans and perhaps other Americans who grew up around "Beto"s?
Peter T. Daniels
2018-09-16 12:39:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by s***@gmail.com
People like Chris Mathews of "Hardball" claim they cannot pronounce it - but one would assume that native English speakers Beto grew up with in Texas wouldn't have any difficulty saying it.
Perhaps a little background information would help here.
Who is Beto?
Democratic senatorial opponent of Ted Cruz (R-TX)
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is O'Rourke?
his last name
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Who is Chris Mathews?
liberal commentator and talk-show host
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is "Hardball"?
his program
"Beto" is left over from his childhood nickname for "Robert," a very
common form in his native El Paso
Well, thank you!
What is the problem with the "t"?
It is a dental [t] - which is officially not a native American English sound - but is it native for Texans and perhaps other Americans who grew up around "Beto"s?
In effect, then, code-switching -- unless El Paso English has simply
adopted a Spanish t everywhere.
Ymir
2018-09-16 18:58:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by s***@gmail.com
People like Chris Mathews of "Hardball" claim they cannot pronounce
it - but one would assume that native English speakers Beto grew up
with in Texas wouldn't have any difficulty saying it.
Perhaps a little background information would help here.
Who is Beto?
Democratic senatorial opponent of Ted Cruz (R-TX)
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is O'Rourke?
his last name
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Who is Chris Mathews?
liberal commentator and talk-show host
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is "Hardball"?
his program
"Beto" is left over from his childhood nickname for "Robert," a very
common form in his native El Paso
Well, thank you!
What is the problem with the "t"?
It is a dental [t] - which is officially not a native American English sound
- but is it native for Texans and perhaps other Americans who grew up around
"Beto"s?
I'd think the absence of flapping would be more salient to most
Americans than the fact that it is dental.

Andre
--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.
b***@ihug.co.nz
2018-09-16 02:01:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by s***@gmail.com
People like Chris Mathews of "Hardball" claim they cannot pronounce it - but one would assume that native English speakers Beto grew up with in Texas wouldn't have any difficulty saying it.
Perhaps a little background information would help here.
Who is Beto?
Democratic senatorial opponent of Ted Cruz (R-TX)
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is O'Rourke?
his last name
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Who is Chris Mathews?
liberal commentator and talk-show host
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is "Hardball"?
his program
"Beto" is left over from his childhood nickname for "Robert," a very
common form in his native El Paso
I like it. These nicknames (if that's the correct technical term) are interesting. One of the Springboks (South African rugby team) who beat
the All Blacks last night [!!Yes -- New Zealand in shock!!] was a young
fellow named Faf de Klerk. His real name is François. Anybody heard
that one elsewhere?

On the technical term: I'm not sure there is one. But to me, a nickname
is a descriptive epithet (Lucky, Red, Fats...) relating to an individual's
characteristics or life history. What we're talking about here is a (usually) phonologically simplified version of a normal personal name, perhaps originating in child pronunciation, but standardized. It can in principle be used with
any person bearing that name, though the individual may not accept
the usage ("My name's Robert, don't call me Beto!").
António Marques
2018-09-16 02:08:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by s***@gmail.com
People like Chris Mathews of "Hardball" claim they cannot pronounce it
- but one would assume that native English speakers Beto grew up with
in Texas wouldn't have any difficulty saying it.
Perhaps a little background information would help here.
Who is Beto?
Democratic senatorial opponent of Ted Cruz (R-TX)
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is O'Rourke?
his last name
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Who is Chris Mathews?
liberal commentator and talk-show host
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is "Hardball"?
his program
"Beto" is left over from his childhood nickname for "Robert," a very
common form in his native El Paso
I like it. These nicknames (if that's the correct technical term) are
interesting. One of the Springboks (South African rugby team) who beat
the All Blacks last night [!!Yes -- New Zealand in shock!!] was a young
fellow named Faf de Klerk. His real name is François. Anybody heard
that one elsewhere?
On the technical term: I'm not sure there is one. But to me, a nickname
is a descriptive epithet (Lucky, Red, Fats...) relating to an individual's
characteristics or life history. What we're talking about here is a
(usually) phonologically simplified version of a normal personal name,
perhaps originating in child pronunciation, but standardized. It can in
principle be used with
any person bearing that name, though the individual may not accept
the usage ("My name's Robert, don't call me Beto!").
Can a William do that? I was under the impression short forms were
mandatory in the US.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-09-16 03:05:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by s***@gmail.com
People like Chris Mathews of "Hardball" claim they cannot pronounce it - but one would assume that native English speakers Beto grew up with in Texas wouldn't have any difficulty saying it.
Perhaps a little background information would help here.
Who is Beto?
Democratic senatorial opponent of Ted Cruz (R-TX)
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is O'Rourke?
his last name
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Who is Chris Mathews?
liberal commentator and talk-show host
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is "Hardball"?
his program
"Beto" is left over from his childhood nickname for "Robert," a very
common form in his native El Paso
I like it. These nicknames (if that's the correct technical term) are interesting. One of the Springboks (South African rugby team) who beat
the All Blacks last night [!!Yes -- New Zealand in shock!!] was a young
fellow named Faf de Klerk. His real name is François. Anybody heard
that one elsewhere?
On the technical term: I'm not sure there is one. But to me, a nickname
is a descriptive epithet (Lucky, Red, Fats...) relating to an individual's
characteristics or life history. What we're talking about here is a (usually) phonologically simplified version of a normal personal name, perhaps originating in child pronunciation, but standardized. It can in principle be used with
any person bearing that name, though the individual may not accept
the usage ("My name's Robert, don't call me Beto!").
hypocoristic

(He was on Colbert last week, who I don't think has ever had a non-
national candidate on before; he had Ocasio-Cortez after her stunning
upset of the #4 House Democrat in the primary, but she's unopposed in
the November election. He revealed that he was also in a fairly successful
punk band in his youth. Cruz actually bought air time to run a commercial
in Texas during/after O'Rourke's appearance.)
António Marques
2018-09-16 02:08:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by s***@gmail.com
People like Chris Mathews of "Hardball" claim they cannot pronounce it
- but one would assume that native English speakers Beto grew up with
in Texas wouldn't have any difficulty saying it.
Perhaps a little background information would help here.
Who is Beto?
Democratic senatorial opponent of Ted Cruz (R-TX)
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is O'Rourke?
his last name
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Who is Chris Mathews?
liberal commentator and talk-show host
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is "Hardball"?
his program
"Beto" is left over from his childhood nickname for "Robert," a very
common form in his native El Paso
Interesting. In Portuguese it’s usually the short form of Alberto (I don’t
know about Brazil, where they have a lot more Robertos and an actual name
‘Bebeto’).
wugi
2018-09-16 10:16:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by s***@gmail.com
People like Chris Mathews of "Hardball" claim they cannot pronounce it - but one would assume that native English speakers Beto grew up with in Texas wouldn't have any difficulty saying it.
Perhaps a little background information would help here.
Who is Beto?
Democratic senatorial opponent of Ted Cruz (R-TX)
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is O'Rourke?
his last name
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Who is Chris Mathews?
liberal commentator and talk-show host
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
What is "Hardball"?
his program
"Beto" is left over from his childhood nickname for "Robert," a very
common form in his native El Paso
So this 't', is it an approximant d of sorts, the American way?
And the 'e', is it like Baydo, or Beedo, or Beddo, or sth else? I'd
rather have expected sth like Berdo/Birdo (Bert ho!)...
--
guido wugi
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