Discussion:
Complete Salish conference procedings free online
(too old to reply)
Trond Engen
2013-01-10 23:59:46 UTC
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Since I can't be bothered to retrieve the subthresd where David and
Arnaud discussed American West Coast languages, and since it probably
deserves its own thread anyway, let it be known that my eyes just fell
upon this:

| University of British Columbia Working Papers in Linguistics (UBCWPL)
| would like to announce that the complete set of ICSNL precedings
| (1967-2012) is now available online free of charge at
|
| <http://www.linguistics.ubc.ca/icsnl/index>
|
| This is an indispensible resource on Salish, Wakashan, and other
| language families of the Pacific Northwest.

(The Kinkade Collection: the On-Line Archive of Papers for the
International Conference on Salish (and Neighbo(u)ring) Languages)
--
Trond Engen
- cursory reader of LinguistList
johnk
2013-01-11 01:42:34 UTC
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Post by Trond Engen
Since I can't be bothered to retrieve the subthresd where David and
Arnaud discussed American West Coast languages, and since it probably
deserves its own thread anyway, let it be known that my eyes just fell
| University of British Columbia Working Papers in Linguistics (UBCWPL)
| would like to announce that the complete set of ICSNL precedings
| (1967-2012) is now available online free of charge at
|
| <http://www.linguistics.ubc.ca/icsnl/index>
|
| This is an indispensible resource on Salish, Wakashan, and other
| language families of the Pacific Northwest.
(The Kinkade Collection: the On-Line Archive of Papers for the
International Conference on Salish (and Neighbo(u)ring) Languages)
--
Trond Engen
- cursory reader of LinguistList
Thanks for the link!

JohnK
DKleinecke
2013-01-11 02:05:32 UTC
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Post by Trond Engen
Since I can't be bothered to retrieve the subthresd where David and
Arnaud discussed American West Coast languages, and since it probably
deserves its own thread anyway, let it be known that my eyes just fell
| University of British Columbia Working Papers in Linguistics (UBCWPL)
| would like to announce that the complete set of ICSNL precedings
| (1967-2012) is now available online free of charge at
|
| <http://www.linguistics.ubc.ca/icsnl/index>
|
| This is an indispensible resource on Salish, Wakashan, and other
| language families of the Pacific Northwest.
(The Kinkade Collection: the On-Line Archive of Papers for the
International Conference on Salish (and Neighbo(u)ring) Languages)
--
Trond Engen
- cursory reader of LinguistList
Thanks for thinking of us and supplying the link. I am only shallowly
interested in California Languages (and that mostly because of being a
Californian - not native, I came when I was one year old). My long
time field of study is South American languages (and Cushitic when I
want a holiday)
The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army
2013-01-12 17:25:31 UTC
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Post by Trond Engen
Since I can't be bothered to retrieve the subthresd where David and
Arnaud discussed American West Coast languages, and since it probably
deserves its own thread anyway, let it be known that my eyes just fell
| University of British Columbia Working Papers in Linguistics (UBCWPL)
| would like to announce that the complete set of ICSNL precedings
| (1967-2012) is now available online free of charge at
|
| <http://www.linguistics.ubc.ca/icsnl/index>
|
| This is an indispensible resource on Salish, Wakashan, and other
| language families of the Pacific Northwest.
(The Kinkade Collection: the On-Line Archive of Papers for the
International Conference on Salish (and Neighbo(u)ring) Languages)
--
Trond Engen
- cursory reader of LinguistList
Franz must be jubilant now that he has a lot of material on what he
calls the Red Injun languages, to build new Magdalenian hypotheses on.
DKleinecke
2013-01-13 02:56:24 UTC
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On Jan 12, 9:25 am, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army
Post by The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army
Post by Trond Engen
Since I can't be bothered to retrieve the subthresd where David and
Arnaud discussed American West Coast languages, and since it probably
deserves its own thread anyway, let it be known that my eyes just fell
| University of British Columbia Working Papers in Linguistics (UBCWPL)
| would like to announce that the complete set of ICSNL precedings
| (1967-2012) is now available online free of charge at
|
| <http://www.linguistics.ubc.ca/icsnl/index>
|
| This is an indispensible resource on Salish, Wakashan, and other
| language families of the Pacific Northwest.
(The Kinkade Collection: the On-Line Archive of Papers for the
International Conference on Salish (and Neighbo(u)ring) Languages)
--
Trond Engen
- cursory reader of LinguistList
Franz must be jubilant now that he has a lot of material on what he
calls the Red Injun languages, to build new Magdalenian hypotheses on.
He will be disappointed when I do not reply. I don't read his posts.
Franz Gnaedinger
2013-01-13 10:14:31 UTC
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Post by Trond Engen
Since I can't be bothered to retrieve the subthresd where David and
Arnaud discussed American West Coast languages, and since it probably
deserves its own thread anyway, let it be known that my eyes just fell
| University of British Columbia Working Papers in Linguistics (UBCWPL)
| would like to announce that the complete set of ICSNL precedings
| (1967-2012) is now available online free of charge at
|
| <http://www.linguistics.ubc.ca/icsnl/index>
|
| This is an indispensible resource on Salish, Wakashan, and other
| language families of the Pacific Northwest.
(The Kinkade Collection: the On-Line Archive of Papers for the
International Conference on Salish (and Neighbo(u)ring) Languages)
Seems I have to blow some fresh air in the embers
of this thread. Here my etymology of the Salish word
for bird, via a long Magdalenian chain of words and
derivatives. I rely on the result of a recent genetical
study: several tribes left the Altai Mountains in Siberia
13,000 years ago, wandered eastward, ventured along
the Beringia into Alaska, spread from there, and slowly
populated the Americas. The affinities of Indo-European
and Sibero-American including Wintun and Salish
are best explained via an old substratum, a widespread
language of Eurasia in the Ice Age the fully developed
form of which I call Magdalenian, which is also an
archaeological term for a civilization that covered
Eurasia from the Franco-Cantabrian space in the west
to Malta near Irkutsk on Lake Baikal in the east.

Salish for bird

Magdalenian named a variety of animals in the form of
P vowel C yielding words for horse and smaller animals
and birds.

PAC means horse. AS PAC Avestan aspa Sanskrit asva,
- upward AS horse PAC - originally named small pony-like
horses carrying loads up a hill or mountain on the their
back, consider also packhorse, pack mule, pack animal.
Emphatic PAC AS AS Greek Pegasos Latin Pegasus,
a winged horse - horse up up - originally personified
the hot summer wind Afghanetz blowing from the Aral
Sea along the Amu Darya to the Hindukush. (The banks
of the Amu Darya were the first Indo-European homeland,
center Termez - Kunduz - Kurgan T'upe, later Bactria
of the Greeks, famous for horses, PAC in Bac-tria.
From the second and third IE homelands east and west
of the Rha Volga - from the Uralic and Pontic steppes -
came a phonetically close but semantically different
compound, AC PAS *h1ekwos hippos equus Epona,
expanse of land with water AC everywhere in a plain PAS
- riding a horse you can get everywhere PAS on earth AC)

PEC named smaller animals, ibex German Steinbock,
French biche 'hind', English pig, Latin pecus 'cattle'
of smaller size, mainly sheep and goats and pigs,
while pecunia 'money' named a silver ingot worth a cow
and decorated with the image of a cow, Italian vacca

PIC named a bird and a beak French bec Italian becco,
and accounts for pick and peck German picken French
piquer, also for French pic English woodpeck German
Specht. Italian ucello 'bird' lost the intitial P which is
preseverd in piccolo 'small' that may originally have
referred to small and very light birds like for example
a sparrow German Spatz, the latter an accentuated
version of the P vowel C formula justified by the great
number of these birds that follow people everywhere.
Latin avis 'bird' may suggest this development

PIC aPIC aviC avIs

and German Vogel 'bird' this one

PIC PoC voC vog el

A metaphorical peak is present in a Mountain Peak
German Bergspitze (analogous accentuation as in
Spatz 'sparrow') Italian Pizzo (while a pizza is cut up
in beak-like pieces) Rumantg Piz. An Etruscan netvis
Roman haruspex foretold the future from observing
lightnings and the flight of birds and the liver of
sacrificed animals, one of the books of divination
having been called liber haruspicini that may go back
to AAR RAA PIC meaning: in the air AAR and light
RAA fly the birds PIC that speak to us in the pictures
and patterns they form in the sky ... Also a shaman
or a shamaness of the Salish in California may have
observed birds, especially in the hills and mountains,
near a beak of rock, a Peak Pizzo Piz, the general
Salish word for bird containing PIC in the form of -pz-
(my apology for not giving the entire word, the notations
of Salish are so complicated that I can't reproduce them
on the keybord of a public webstation).
Yusuf B Gursey
2013-01-13 10:44:36 UTC
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Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Post by Trond Engen
Since I can't be bothered to retrieve the subthresd where David and
Arnaud discussed American West Coast languages, and since it probably
deserves its own thread anyway, let it be known that my eyes just fell
| University of British Columbia Working Papers in Linguistics (UBCWPL)
| would like to announce that the complete set of ICSNL precedings
| (1967-2012) is now available online free of charge at
|
| <http://www.linguistics.ubc.ca/icsnl/index>
|
| This is an indispensible resource on Salish, Wakashan, and other
| language families of the Pacific Northwest.
(The Kinkade Collection: the On-Line Archive of Papers for the
International Conference on Salish (and Neighbo(u)ring) Languages)
Seems I have to blow some fresh air in the embers
from which end?
Post by Franz Gnaedinger
of this thread. Here my etymology of the Salish word
for bird, via a long Magdalenian chain of words and
derivatives. I rely on the result of a recent genetical
study: several tribes left the Altai Mountains in Siberia
13,000 years ago, wandered eastward, ventured along
the Beringia into Alaska, spread from there, and slowly
populated the Americas. The affinities of Indo-European
and Sibero-American including Wintun and Salish
are best explained via an old substratum, a widespread
language of Eurasia in the Ice Age the fully developed
form of which I call Magdalenian, which is also an
archaeological term for a civilization that covered
Eurasia from the Franco-Cantabrian space in the west
to Malta near Irkutsk on Lake Baikal in the east.
johnk
2013-01-13 22:06:47 UTC
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Post by Franz Gnaedinger
A metaphorical peak is present in a Mountain Peak
German Bergspitze (analogous accentuation as in
Spatz 'sparrow') Italian Pizzo (while a pizza is cut up
in beak-like pieces) Rumantg Piz. An Etruscan netvis
Roman haruspex foretold the future from observing
lightnings and the flight of birds and the liver of
sacrificed animals, one of the books of divination
having been called liber haruspicini that may go back
to AAR RAA PIC meaning: in the air AAR and light
RAA fly the birds PIC that speak to us in the pictures
and patterns they form in the sky ... Also a shaman
or a shamaness of the Salish in California may have
observed birds, especially in the hills and mountains,
near a beak of rock, a Peak Pizzo Piz, the general
Salish word for bird containing PIC in the form of -pz-
(my apology for not giving the entire word, the notations
of Salish are so complicated that I can't reproduce them
on the keybord of a public webstation).
Wrong. The general term for bird in Salish is ɬxʷixʷeyuɬ which doesn't fit your pattern at all.
Of course, I need to explain to you (since you are an idiot) that there is a language referred to as Salish (spoken in Montana) and a Salish language family which is usually referred to as Salishan. Since you referred to a word in Salish I can only assume you are referring to the Salish language.
Why do you put them in California? The Salishan languages are spoken in the Pacific Northwest of North America (Washington, Idaho, Montana, British Columbia, etc) What Salishan language are you referring to in California?

JohnK
Arnaud F.
2013-01-13 22:12:18 UTC
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Post by johnk
Wrong. The general term for bird in Salish is ɬxʷixʷeyuɬ which doesn't fit your pattern at all.
Of course, I need to explain to you (since you are an idiot) that there is a language referred to as Salish (spoken in Montana) and a Salish language family which is usually referred to as Salishan. Since you referred to a word in Salish I can only assume you are referring to the Salish language.
Why do you put them in California? The Salishan languages are spoken in the Pacific Northwest of North America (Washington, Idaho, Montana, British Columbia, etc) What Salishan language are you referring to in California?
JohnK
***

First try to explain him what a language is.

A.
pauljk
2013-01-14 03:39:05 UTC
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Post by Arnaud F.
Post by johnk
Wrong. The general term for bird in Salish is ɬxʷixʷeyuɬ which doesn't fit your
pattern at all.
Of course, I need to explain to you (since you are an idiot) that there is a
language referred to as Salish (spoken in Montana) and a Salish language family
which is usually referred to as Salishan. Since you referred to a word in Salish I
can only assume you are referring to the Salish language.
Why do you put them in California? The Salishan languages are spoken in the
Pacific Northwest of North America (Washington, Idaho, Montana, British Columbia,
etc) What Salishan language are you referring to in California?
JohnK
***
First try to explain him what a language is.
A.
I wouldn't bother, over the years it's been tried many times with
no discernible success.
An old Central European proverb comes to mind:
"It's like throwing peas against the wall."

pjk
Arnaud F.
2013-01-14 08:36:49 UTC
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Post by pauljk
Post by Arnaud F.
***
First try to explain him what a language is.
A.
I wouldn't bother, over the years it's been tried many times with
no discernible success.
"It's like throwing peas against the wall."
***

Here's another one:
"il a un petit pois à la place du cerveau."

he's got a pea instead of a brain.

A.
pauljk
2013-01-14 08:53:06 UTC
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Post by Arnaud F.
Post by pauljk
Post by Arnaud F.
***
First try to explain him what a language is.
A.
I wouldn't bother, over the years it's been tried many times with
no discernible success.
"It's like throwing peas against the wall."
***
"il a un petit pois à la place du cerveau."
he's got a pea instead of a brain.
There's one I heard many years ago when I was learning
English said by my colleagues about our boss. The warped
logic of it somewhat puzzled me.

"If they put another brain into his head, it would be alone."
Arnaud F.
2013-01-14 09:39:36 UTC
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Post by pauljk
Post by Arnaud F.
Post by pauljk
Post by Arnaud F.
***
First try to explain him what a language is.
A.
I wouldn't bother, over the years it's been tried many times with
no discernible success.
"It's like throwing peas against the wall."
***
"il a un petit pois à la place du cerveau."
he's got a pea instead of a brain.
There's one I heard many years ago when I was learning
English said by my colleagues about our boss. The warped
logic of it somewhat puzzled me.
"If they put another brain into his head, it would be alone."
***

Another one is that kind of warped euphemism is:
"il n'est pas (tout à fait) fini".
he's (quite) not finished (assembling), implying he lacks a brain.

In that line of reasoning:
"il reste des pièces dans la boite"
some pieces (=the brain) are still in the kit box.

A.
***
Peter T. Daniels
2013-01-14 11:51:23 UTC
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Post by pauljk
Post by Arnaud F.
Post by pauljk
Post by Arnaud F.
***
First try to explain him what a language is.
A.
I wouldn't bother, over the years it's been tried many times with
no discernible success.
"It's like throwing peas against the wall."
***
"il a un petit pois à la place du cerveau."
he's got a pea instead of a brain.
There's one I heard many years ago when I was learning
English said by my colleagues about our boss. The warped
logic of it somewhat puzzled me.
"If they put another brain into his head, it would be alone."
An immense series of metaphors exists in English, and the pattern is
continually being extended: "A couple of bricks short of a load," "A
few chapters short of a book," etc.
Arnaud F.
2013-01-14 12:33:01 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
An immense series of metaphors exists in English, and the pattern is
continually being extended: "A couple of bricks short of a load," "A
few chapters short of a book," etc.
***

Anything on "a letter short of a fraud" ?

A.
Peter T. Daniels
2013-01-14 15:09:49 UTC
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Post by Arnaud F.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
An immense series of metaphors exists in English, and the pattern is
continually being extended: "A couple of bricks short of a load," "A
few chapters short of a book," etc.
***
Anything on "a letter short of a fraud" ?
Proving that yangg can't even construct a simple analogy.

Amazing that even vanity-press web sites and journals publish his
stuff.
Arnaud F.
2013-01-14 17:33:37 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Amazing that even vanity-press web sites and journals publish his
stuff.
***

Interesting utterance.

The fraud who represents vanity-press is you, fraud.

If web sites and journals publish my papers, it's because they are good, as there's no money, no fame involved. They pass the process, because they are good, good, got it?

Can you just realize that something can be published because it's good?

Not like your vanity-books, that are the devil knows how over-expensive with respect to actual contents and that nobody cares buying, but subsidized libraries.

Got it, vanity-press fraud?

A.
Peter T. Daniels
2013-01-14 19:45:19 UTC
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Post by Arnaud F.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Amazing that even vanity-press web sites and journals publish his
stuff.
***
Interesting utterance.
The fraud who represents vanity-press is you, fraud.
If web sites and journals publish my papers, it's because they are good, as there's no money, no fame involved. They pass the process, because they are good, good, got it?
So says the same yangg who rejects the peer review process.
Post by Arnaud F.
Can you just realize that something can be published because it's good?
If they are not peer reviewed, who has certified that they are good?
Post by Arnaud F.
Not like your vanity-books, that are the devil knows how over-expensive with respect to actual contents and that nobody cares buying, but subsidized libraries.
Got it, vanity-press fraud?
Whatever you're talking about, it isn't me.

Arnaud F.
2013-01-13 22:30:32 UTC
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Post by johnk
Post by Franz Gnaedinger
A metaphorical peak is present in a Mountain Peak
German Bergspitze (analogous accentuation as in
Spatz 'sparrow') Italian Pizzo (while a pizza is cut up
in beak-like pieces) Rumantg Piz. An Etruscan netvis
Roman haruspex foretold the future from observing
lightnings and the flight of birds and the liver of
sacrificed animals, one of the books of divination
having been called liber haruspicini that may go back
to AAR RAA PIC meaning: in the air AAR and light
RAA fly the birds PIC that speak to us in the pictures
and patterns they form in the sky ... Also a shaman
or a shamaness of the Salish in California may have
observed birds, especially in the hills and mountains,
near a beak of rock, a Peak Pizzo Piz, the general
Salish word for bird containing PIC in the form of -pz-
(my apology for not giving the entire word, the notations
of Salish are so complicated that I can't reproduce them
on the keybord of a public webstation).
Wrong. The general term for bird in Salish is ɬxʷixʷeyuɬ which doesn't fit your pattern at all.
***
This can be verified here:
http://www.salishworld.com/Selish%20Dictionary_online.pdf

The root is possibly *gwey(H) "to be alive",
xʷixʷeyuɬ means animal < "that is alive, animate".
= *gwigweyul-os

A.
***
Franz Gnaedinger
2013-01-14 08:58:34 UTC
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more on the Salish

Oregon - Beautiful Sliver of the Young Moon

Ross Clark informs me that the Salish never came
farther south than Oregon. Well then. Oregon inspires
ORE GEN, beautiful ORE young moon GEN of the
first three days or nights (followed by six days of the
waxing moon, nine days of the full moon, six days
of the waning moon, three days of the old moon,
and alternately three and two days of the empty moon
German Leermond in the chronometry of Lascaux).
Everybody can see the full moon, whereas finding
the sliver of the young moon somewhere in the vast
expanse of the night sky was near impossible without
optical devices and astronomical coordinates - yet
the Oregon people may have succeeded (as the
Babylonians in Asia Minor.). Alternative etymology:
ORI GEN, horizon ORI young moon GEN. Double
formula: ORI GEN, ORE GEN -- the Oregon people
were skilled astronomers, always able to predict
where the beautiful sliver of the young moon will
originate from the eastern horizon ... An appealing
place of their ancient home would have been the
plain between the elegant volcano Mount St. Helens
and Lake Spirit of a smaller western and larger eastern
part, now Pumice Plain, the archaeological level buried
under the pumice of the 1991 eruption. Four thousand
years ago the tangent of the lunar extremes (reached
every 18.6 years) was 1:1 while the rising and setting
sun on the solstices had a tengent of 3:4 (in reference
to the East West line). These numbers combined with
a couple of telling geographical names allow a further
archaeological and Paleo-linguistic fable.

The Oregon people named themselves for the eastern
horizon of the beautiful sliver of the young moon, with
a double formula: ORI GEN ORE GEN . They settled
in a fertile plain, between the Heavenly Mountain CA LAS
(Helens), Mountain of Moon and Sun - an elegant snow-
capped volcano, the white snow reminding of the moon,
and the fire housed by a volcano of the sun - and Lake
Moon-and-Sun (Lake Spirit of a smaller western and
larger eastern part) north of the Heavenly Mountain
CA LAS.

Moon and Sun were combined in a lunisolar calendar.
A month had 30 days, a year 12 months plus 5 and
occasionally 6 more days, while 63 continuous periods
of 30 days are 1,890 days and correspond to 65 moons
or lunations or synodic months. Begin with 30 29 30 29
30 29 30 29 30 ... days for 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... lunations.
15 and 17 lunations yield 443 and 502 days respectively,
together 945 days for 32 lunations, doubled 1,890 days
for 64 lunations.

64 equals 8 times 8. A square measuring 8 by 8 rods
defined the ground of the Hummingbird Sanctuary
and astronomical observatory. Four poles marked the
corners of the square 8 by 8, two and two poles North
and South, two and two poles East and West. Two
more poles were seen in the middle of the square,
1 rod north and 1 rod south of the center, diagonal
distances from the nearest corner poles 5 rods
(according to the Sacred Triangle 3 4 5). The poles
of North and East provided sighting lines of the rising
and setting sun on the equinoxes. The poles in the
middle combined with the nearest corner poles
provided sighting lines of the rising and setting sun
on the solstices. And the corner poles alone provided
sighting lines of the lunar extremes reached every
long moon (18.6 years). The characterisic pattern
of the six poles were seen as Heavenly Bird CA PIC
(origin of the Inca name Capac?), a hummingbird
(consider the kolibri among the Nazca geoglyphs)
of a white underside for moon and snow and a red
upperside for the fire of sun and volcano, modeled
on the male of the Rufus Hummingbird (Selasphorus
rufus).

DAL means valley, dale, German Tal. Inverse LAD
means hill. The comparative form of DAL is SAL
and names the watery ground of a valley, while the
comparative form of LAD and inverse form of SAL
is LAS meaning mountain. AC names an expanse
of land with water, inverse CA the sky. The shores
of Lake Moon-and-Sun (Lake Spirit) were called
SAL AC (wherefrom Salish, perhaps also present
in Sales- of Salesphorus rufus). CA LAS named
the Heavenly Mountain (Helens) while LAS CA
named the high mountains LAS of southern
Alaska that reach the sky CA ...
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