Discussion:
John of Damascus and the prophet Mamed
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Yusuf B Gursey
2017-05-16 07:42:50 UTC
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Raw Message
In the "Heresy of the Ishmaelites," Saint John of Damascus mentions the
prophet Mamed.
1. How is Mamed written in the original Greek?
Μαμεδ
2. Why did he not write Muhammed/Mohammed?
Well, for one thing Greek has no letter "h" and the aspiration of
Classical Greek had been lost by that time.

It's /muHammad/ in terms of the phonemes of Classical Arabic, the
poetic koine of the time. How it was realized, particularly the quality
of the vowels depended on the dialect, as is now.

/H/ is the unvoiced pharyngeal fricative. That and glottal (plain) /h/
tended to be transcribed into Greek from Semitic languages without
indication while the unvoiced uvular / velar fricated *kh* by Chi χ

Also stress patterns in Arabic tend to reduce the first vowel,
particularly in Spoken Arabic, as in some contemporary dialects of the
Levant and Iraq and eleswhere.
3. How is Muhammed/Mohammed written in other contemporary Greek writings?
Usually Μαμεδ or Μαμετ

Ahmad Jallud has a study of the Arabic of the time as transcribed into
Greek.

One must consider the interplay of Spoken Greek and Classical Greek
with Classical Arabic and Spoken Arabic. Our knowledge of the spoken
forms of both languages is indirect.

Early Syriac sources transliterate the consonantal skeleton of Arabic
orthography as <mHmT> rarely <mHmd> One early source has <mwHmT>,
indicating the initial mu-

Syriac final -d is spirintized so emphatic T is used which does not get
spirantized.

It is also possible that some Arabic dialects devoiced final -d

In Middle Persian (Pahlavi) it was spelled <mHmT>, so in coins .
Indicating final-d with T was regular in this language, due to a sound
change in Persian.

I assume that the Greek scribes, those bilingual Greek and Arabic or
Greek, Syriac and Arabic were the Arab Christians of the Levant or used
them as informants. Their speech may have tended to Neo Arabic early.
Yusuf B Gursey
2017-05-16 08:28:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In the "Heresy of the Ishmaelites," Saint John of Damascus mentions the
prophet Mamed.
1. How is Mamed written in the original Greek?
Μαμεδ
2. Why did he not write Muhammed/Mohammed?
Well, for one thing Greek has no letter "h" and the aspiration of Classical
Greek had been lost by that time.
It's /muHammad/ in terms of the phonemes of Classical Arabic, the poetic
koine of the time. How it was realized, particularly the quality of the
vowels depended on the dialect, as is now.
/H/ is the unvoiced pharyngeal fricative. That and glottal (plain) /h/
tended to be transcribed into Greek from Semitic languages without indication
while the unvoiced uvular / velar fricated *kh* by Chi χ
Also stress patterns in Arabic tend to reduce the first vowel, particularly
in Spoken Arabic, as in some contemporary dialects of the Levant and Iraq and
eleswhere.
3. How is Muhammed/Mohammed written in other contemporary Greek writings?
Usually Μαμεδ or Μαμετ
Ahmad Jallud has a study of the Arabic of the time as transcribed into Greek.
Ahmad al-Jallad
One must consider the interplay of Spoken Greek and Classical Greek with
Classical Arabic and Spoken Arabic. Our knowledge of the spoken forms of both
languages is indirect.
Early Syriac sources transliterate the consonantal skeleton of Arabic
orthography as <mHmT> rarely <mHmd> One early source has <mwHmT>, indicating
the initial mu-
Syriac final -d is spirintized so emphatic T is used which does not get
spirantized.
It is also possible that some Arabic dialects devoiced final -d
In Middle Persian (Pahlavi) it was spelled <mHmT>, so in coins . Indicating
final-d with T was regular in this language, due to a sound change in
Persian.
I assume that the Greek scribes, those bilingual Greek and Arabic or Greek,
Syriac and Arabic were the Arab Christians of the Levant or used them as
informants. Their speech may have tended to Neo Arabic early.
Yusuf B Gursey
2017-05-16 08:57:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In the "Heresy of the Ishmaelites," Saint John of Damascus mentions the
prophet Mamed. 1. How is Mamed written in the original Greek?
Μαμεδ
2. Why did he not write Muhammed/Mohammed?
Well, for one thing Greek has no letter "h" and the aspiration of
Classical Greek had been lost by that time.

It's muHammad in terms of the phonemes of Classical Arabic, the poetic
koine of the time. How it was realized, particularly the quality of the
vowels depended on the dialect, as is now.

H is the unvoiced pharyngeal fricative. That and glottal (plain) h
tended to be transcribed into Greek from Semitic languages without
indication while the unvoiced uvular / velar fricated kh by Chi χ

Also stress patterns in Arabic tend to reduce the first vowel,
particularly in Spoken Arabic, as in some contemporary dialects of the
Levant and Iraq and eleswhere.
3. How is Muhammed/Mohammed written in other contemporary Greek writings?
Usually Μαμεδ or Μαμετ

Ahmad al-Jallad has a study of the Arabic of the time as transcribed
into Greek.

One must consider the interplay of Spoken Greek and Classical Greek
with Classical Arabic and Spoken Arabic. Our knowledge of the spoken
forms of both languages is indirect.

Early Syriac sources transliterate the consonantal skeleton of Arabic
orthography as <mHmT> rarely <mHmd> One early source has <mwHmT>,
indicating the initial mu-

Syriac final -d is spirintized so emphatic T is used which does not get
spirantized.

It is also possible that some Arabic dialects devoiced final -d

In Middle Persian (Pahlavi) it was spelled <mHmT>, so in coins .
Indicating final-d with T was regular in this language, due to a sound
change in Persian.

I assume that the Greek scribes, those bilingual Greek and Arabic or
Greek, Syriac and Arabic were the Arab Christians of the Levant or used
them as informants. Their speech may have tended to Neo Arabic early.
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