Discussion:
"Brogan" en France?
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b***@ihug.co.nz
2017-11-24 10:19:19 UTC
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From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
section of the local paper:

"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."

Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
Arnaud Fournet
2017-11-24 14:45:51 UTC
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Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
what does the "local" newspaper actually write in French?
I'm not aware of "local" newspapers in English.
A.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-11-24 18:05:30 UTC
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Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
what does the "local" newspaper actually write in French?
I'm not aware of "local" newspapers in English.
A failure of "theory of mind," moron? When someone in New Zealand writes of a
"local paper," it's likely that it's a local newspaper in which some New
Zealanders describe their trip to Europe.
Arnaud Fournet
2017-11-25 10:53:09 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
what does the "local" newspaper actually write in French?
I'm not aware of "local" newspapers in English.
A failure of "theory of mind," moron? When someone in New Zealand writes of a
"local paper," it's likely that it's a local newspaper in which some New
Zealanders describe their trip to Europe.
well, a local paper in relationship with the Loire Valley sounds like a local paper of the Loire Valley to me.
A.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-11-25 13:18:07 UTC
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Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
what does the "local" newspaper actually write in French?
I'm not aware of "local" newspapers in English.
A failure of "theory of mind," moron? When someone in New Zealand writes of a
"local paper," it's likely that it's a local newspaper in which some New
Zealanders describe their trip to Europe.
well, a local paper in relationship with the Loire Valley sounds like a local paper of the Loire Valley to me.
Are many local papers of the Loire Valley written in English?
Arnaud Fournet
2017-11-26 08:34:12 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
what does the "local" newspaper actually write in French?
I'm not aware of "local" newspapers in English.
A failure of "theory of mind," moron? When someone in New Zealand writes of a
"local paper," it's likely that it's a local newspaper in which some New
Zealanders describe their trip to Europe.
well, a local paper in relationship with the Loire Valley sounds like a local paper of the Loire Valley to me.
Are many local papers of the Loire Valley written in English?
I don't think so. The American imperial occupation has not reached that level yet.
A.
b***@ihug.co.nz
2017-11-25 08:50:18 UTC
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Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
what does the "local" newspaper actually write in French?
I'm not aware of "local" newspapers in English.
A.
Local to me (in New Zealand). The article is in English, written
by NZers (or possibly Australians). I suspect they completely
misunderstood the sign. "Brogan" exists as an Irish surname, and
an American word for a kind of shoe, but I don't think it means
anything in French.
Arnaud Fournet
2017-11-25 10:51:19 UTC
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Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
what does the "local" newspaper actually write in French?
I'm not aware of "local" newspapers in English.
A.
Local to me (in New Zealand). The article is in English, written
by NZers (or possibly Australians). I suspect they completely
misunderstood the sign. "Brogan" exists as an Irish surname, and
an American word for a kind of shoe, but I don't think it means
anything in French.
I can't figure out what "Brogan" might mean.
A.
Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
2017-11-26 06:44:54 UTC
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Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
what does the "local" newspaper actually write in French?
I'm not aware of "local" newspapers in English.
A.
Local to me (in New Zealand). The article is in English, written
by NZers (or possibly Australians). I suspect they completely
misunderstood the sign. "Brogan" exists as an Irish surname, and
an American word for a kind of shoe, but I don't think it means
anything in French.
I can't figure out what "Brogan" might mean.
A.
Whatever it means in your barbarous argot, I don't care; but in the much more civilized language of Gaelic Scotland, it means "shoes", with a grave accent over the o.
Arnaud Fournet
2017-11-26 08:33:12 UTC
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Post by Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
what does the "local" newspaper actually write in French?
I'm not aware of "local" newspapers in English.
A.
Local to me (in New Zealand). The article is in English, written
by NZers (or possibly Australians). I suspect they completely
misunderstood the sign. "Brogan" exists as an Irish surname, and
an American word for a kind of shoe, but I don't think it means
anything in French.
I can't figure out what "Brogan" might mean.
A.
Whatever it means in your barbarous argot, I don't care; but in the much more civilized language of Gaelic Scotland, it means "shoes", with a grave accent over the o.
a grave or an acute ?
A.
António Marques
2017-11-26 13:58:50 UTC
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Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
what does the "local" newspaper actually write in French?
I'm not aware of "local" newspapers in English.
A.
Local to me (in New Zealand). The article is in English, written
by NZers (or possibly Australians). I suspect they completely
misunderstood the sign. "Brogan" exists as an Irish surname, and
an American word for a kind of shoe, but I don't think it means
anything in French.
I can't figure out what "Brogan" might mean.
A.
Whatever it means in your barbarous argot, I don't care; but in the much
more civilized language of Gaelic Scotland, it means "shoes", with a
grave accent over the o.
a grave or an acute ?
I think iIt was a grave accent even before Scottish Gaelic replaced all
acute accents with grave accents. The word is probably of Norse origin
anyway.
Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
2017-11-26 19:39:12 UTC
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Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
what does the "local" newspaper actually write in French?
I'm not aware of "local" newspapers in English.
A.
Local to me (in New Zealand). The article is in English, written
by NZers (or possibly Australians). I suspect they completely
misunderstood the sign. "Brogan" exists as an Irish surname, and
an American word for a kind of shoe, but I don't think it means
anything in French.
I can't figure out what "Brogan" might mean.
A.
Whatever it means in your barbarous argot, I don't care; but in the much more civilized language of Gaelic Scotland, it means "shoes", with a grave accent over the o.
a grave or an acute ?
If you were civilized, Bongo, you'd know that Scots Gaelic nowadays only has grave accents.
Arnaud Fournet
2017-11-27 09:17:42 UTC
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Post by Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
Post by Arnaud Fournet
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
what does the "local" newspaper actually write in French?
I'm not aware of "local" newspapers in English.
A.
Local to me (in New Zealand). The article is in English, written
by NZers (or possibly Australians). I suspect they completely
misunderstood the sign. "Brogan" exists as an Irish surname, and
an American word for a kind of shoe, but I don't think it means
anything in French.
I can't figure out what "Brogan" might mean.
A.
Whatever it means in your barbarous argot, I don't care; but in the much more civilized language of Gaelic Scotland, it means "shoes", with a grave accent over the o.
a grave or an acute ?
If you were civilized, Bongo, you'd know that Scots Gaelic nowadays only has grave accents.
I'm sorry that Czechs fail to have grave accents in their uncivilized language.
A.
António Marques
2017-11-25 22:04:16 UTC
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Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
It sounds either made up or much too mangled to make sense of (which in
turn would be contradictory with having been read from a notice).
Franz Gnaedinger
2017-11-28 07:43:12 UTC
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Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
Could brogan be a locally used loan from German, Brocken for something
rather big and obstructive, akin to English broken (off), a piece of food
to big to swallow, or a Felsbrocken 'boulder' that fell on the road and
blocks the way? Climate change causes ever more such events in the Swiss Alps,
and certainly also in the French Alps. Had the region in question been
occupied by Germans in the second World War? Vichy is not far from the
Puy-de-Dôme. Or was it a nest of the Résistance that blocked the way for
German tanks with boulders made fall on roads? Let us blast another rock
and block a further road so 'les boches' won't come through. Qu'ils pestent:
immar dees verdammt brogan - immer diese verdammten Brocken - always those
damn boulders ... If so, the hypothetical loan would be a piece of local
pride, used when there is an occasion.
Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski
2017-11-28 10:15:41 UTC
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Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Post by b***@ihug.co.nz
From a recent account of a cycling tour of the Loire Valley, in the travel
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
Note: The bit about the mullets and black clothes is a little joke
based on the Australasian slang term "bogan". Does "Brogan" mean
anything at all in France, or did these people understand even less
about what was going on than they thought?
Could brogan be a locally used loan from German,
No.
Franz Gnaedinger
2017-11-29 08:08:43 UTC
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Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Could brogan be a locally used loan from German, Brocken for something
rather big and obstructive, akin to English broken (off), a piece of food
to big to swallow, or a Felsbrocken 'boulder' that fell on the road and
blocks the way? Climate change causes ever more such events in the Swiss Alps,
and certainly also in the French Alps. Had the region in question been
occupied by Germans in the second World War? Vichy is not far from the
Puy-de-Dôme. Or was it a nest of the Résistance that blocked the way for
German tanks with boulders made fall on roads? Let us blast another rock
immar dees verdammt brogan - immer diese verdammten Brocken - always those
damn boulders ... If so, the hypothetical loan would be a piece of local
pride, used when there is an occasion.
Looking for a possible parallel in Central Switzerland I found the field names
bruchi and bröchi, and the family name Bruchi (no longer in use) wherefrom
the younger Bruhin (still fairly widespread), meaning uncertain, perhaps
referring to agriculture. My ad hoc impression was that the field names refer
to small pieces of land 'broken off' a large expanse owned by a rich farmer.
On the small fragment (akin to break and broken) a poor farmer family may
have been allowed to build a modest house, maintain a garden for growing
vegetables, a few fruit tree, hold chickens, a couple of goats and maybe swine,
obliged to pay tributes to the landlord, and work for him part of the time.
The family name Bruchi then Bruhin would have come from that position. Brogan
as family name in the Auvergne and Haute-Loire could have had the same origin.
If the name comes from Irish and Scottish, it means shoe, diminutive of brogue, but are there people named Shoe? Shoemaker, Schuhmacher, that family name
exists. In any case, brogan has something to do with break broken, one way
or another. Will have to look up the etymology of the Latin word for trousers.
Franz Gnaedinger
2017-11-29 08:56:03 UTC
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Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Looking for a possible parallel in Central Switzerland I found the field names
bruchi and bröchi, and the family name Bruchi (no longer in use) wherefrom
the younger Bruhin (still fairly widespread), meaning uncertain, perhaps
referring to agriculture. My ad hoc impression was that the field names refer
to small pieces of land 'broken off' a large expanse owned by a rich farmer.
On the small fragment (akin to break and broken) a poor farmer family may
have been allowed to build a modest house, maintain a garden for growing
vegetables, a few fruit tree, hold chickens, a couple of goats and maybe swine,
obliged to pay tributes to the landlord, and work for him part of the time.
The family name Bruchi then Bruhin would have come from that position. Brogan
as family name in the Auvergne and Haute-Loire could have had the same origin.
If the name comes from Irish and Scottish, it means shoe, diminutive of brogue, but are there people named Shoe? Shoemaker, Schuhmacher, that family name
exists. In any case, brogan has something to do with break broken, one way
or another. Will have to look up the etymology of the Latin word for trousers.
Brogan derives from LAtin bracae 'trousers'. Google for bracae in the sector
Images and you find various Roman trousers, among them one in the form of
leggins made of leather, trousers and fottwear in one piece, also here

http://classicsalaromana.blogspot.ch/2014/01/com-anaven-vestis-els-romans.html

So shoes would originally have been 'broken off' from the trousers, but how
bracae is correlated with break broken I will have to find out. Nobody said
etymology was easy.
Daud Deden
2017-11-29 19:29:35 UTC
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Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Looking for a possible parallel in Central Switzerland I found the field names
bruchi and bröchi, and the family name Bruchi (no longer in use) wherefrom
the younger Bruhin (still fairly widespread), meaning uncertain, perhaps
referring to agriculture. My ad hoc impression was that the field names refer
to small pieces of land 'broken off' a large expanse owned by a rich farmer.
On the small fragment (akin to break and broken) a poor farmer family may
have been allowed to build a modest house, maintain a garden for growing
vegetables, a few fruit tree, hold chickens, a couple of goats and maybe swine,
obliged to pay tributes to the landlord, and work for him part of the time.
The family name Bruchi then Bruhin would have come from that position. Brogan
as family name in the Auvergne and Haute-Loire could have had the same origin.
If the name comes from Irish and Scottish, it means shoe, diminutive of brogue, but are there people named Shoe? Shoemaker, Schuhmacher, that family name
exists. In any case, brogan has something to do with break broken, one way
or another. Will have to look up the etymology of the Latin word for trousers.
Brogan derives from LAtin bracae 'trousers'. Google for bracae in the sector
Images and you find various Roman trousers, among them one in the form of
leggins made of leather, trousers and fottwear in one piece, also here
http://classicsalaromana.blogspot.ch/2014/01/com-anaven-vestis-els-romans.html
So shoes would originally have been 'broken off' from the trousers, but how
bracae is correlated with break broken I will have to find out. Nobody said
etymology was easy.
Cam-bridge ~ (xyam/ndjam)Breeches? Equestrian related garment, term from the eastern provinces? *mbuang.atl throw/put/birth (cf. stirrups?) What type of shoes were brogans?
Franz Gnaedinger
2017-11-30 08:41:11 UTC
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Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Looking for a possible parallel in Central Switzerland I found the field names
bruchi and bröchi, and the family name Bruchi (no longer in use) wherefrom
the younger Bruhin (still fairly widespread), meaning uncertain, perhaps
referring to agriculture. My ad hoc impression was that the field names refer
to small pieces of land 'broken off' a large expanse owned by a rich farmer.
On the small fragment (akin to break and broken) a poor farmer family may
have been allowed to build a modest house, maintain a garden for growing
vegetables, a few fruit tree, hold chickens, a couple of goats and maybe swine,
obliged to pay tributes to the landlord, and work for him part of the time.
The family name Bruchi then Bruhin would have come from that position. Brogan
as family name in the Auvergne and Haute-Loire could have had the same origin.
If the name comes from Irish and Scottish, it means shoe, diminutive of brogue, but are there people named Shoe? Shoemaker, Schuhmacher, that family name
exists. In any case, brogan has something to do with break broken, one way
or another. Will have to look up the etymology of the Latin word for trousers.
Brogan derives from LAtin bracae 'trousers'. Google for bracae in the sector
Images and you find various Roman trousers, among them one in the form of
leggins made of leather, trousers and fottwear in one piece, also here
http://classicsalaromana.blogspot.ch/2014/01/com-anaven-vestis-els-romans.html
So shoes would originally have been 'broken off' from the trousers, but how
bracae is correlated with break broken I will have to find out. Nobody said
etymology was easy.
Irish brogan is the diminutive of brog 'shoe' and is a form of brogue that
goes back to Latin bracae 'trousers'. Apparently shoes had once been seen
as part of bracae 'trousers', really hanging together in Roman leather
leggins. The etymology of Latin bracae might become simple in the light of
Magdalenian BRI meaning fertile. Fertility and breaking are linked in a
certain way. Break a twig from a tree, plant it, and if you are lucky it grows
into another tree (Norman soil is so fertile that people said jokingly: plant
a pencil and it grows). BRI is also present in branching, one branch becoming
two branches, one twig a pair of twigs. Increasing numbers are a simple form
of fertility: One becomes Two, then Three, then Many. In that numerical sense
also fragment is a derivative of BRI, which is also present in French briser
'break'. A robe is one single piece of cloth, and so is bracae 'trousers',
but they branch into a pair of tubes, each covering one leg, therefore the
plural both in bracae and in trousers (the latter plural irritated me when
in school). The words tentatively interpreted so far would be akin to break
in one way or another. A French brogan as reason to close a road can hardly
bee a shoe (unless the Hollywood director who invented the killer tomato
spent a holiday in the Auvergne and planned a sequel he called Brogan the
killer shoe), so I stick to my assumption that it may be a boulder broken
off from a rocky slope and fallen on a road where it blocks the traffic -
broken Brocken brogan. (We have a Frenchman among us. He could write a couriel
to a tourist office in the Haute-Loire and ask for the meaning of brocan in
the local French usage.)
Alan Smaill
2017-11-30 10:28:25 UTC
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Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Irish brogan is the diminutive of brog 'shoe' and is a form of brogue
that goes back to Latin bracae 'trousers'. Apparently shoes had once
been seen as part of bracae 'trousers', really hanging together in
Roman leather leggins. The etymology of Latin bracae might become
simple in the light of Magdalenian BRI meaning fertile. Fertility and
breaking are linked in a certain way. Break a twig from a tree, plant
it, and if you are lucky it grows into another tree (Norman soil is so
fertile that people said jokingly: plant a pencil and it grows). BRI
is also present in branching, one branch becoming two branches, one
twig a pair of twigs. Increasing numbers are a simple form of
fertility: One becomes Two, then Three, then Many. In that numerical
sense also fragment is a derivative of BRI, which is also present in
French briser 'break'. A robe is one single piece of cloth, and so is
bracae 'trousers', but they branch into a pair of tubes, each covering
one leg, therefore the plural both in bracae and in trousers (the
latter plural irritated me when in school). The words tentatively
interpreted so far would be akin to break in one way or another. A
French brogan as reason to close a road can hardly bee a shoe (unless
the Hollywood director who invented the killer tomato spent a holiday
in the Auvergne and planned a sequel he called Brogan the killer
shoe), so I stick to my assumption that it may be a boulder broken off
from a rocky slope and fallen on a road where it blocks the traffic -
broken Brocken brogan. (We have a Frenchman among us. He could write a couriel
courriel
Post by Franz Gnaedinger
to a tourist office in the Haute-Loire and ask for the meaning of brocan in
the local French usage.)
More mundanely, it might simply be a non-French word referring to somebody
called Brogan who has set up shop in the Loire.

There is a "Burton's gare" in Occitanie, presumably from
the name of somebody English speaking who took over the
train station when it closed to passengers
(there are still trains, though).
--
Alan Smaill
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-11-30 11:33:52 UTC
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Post by Alan Smaill
Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Irish brogan is the diminutive of brog 'shoe' and is a form of brogue
that goes back to Latin bracae 'trousers'. Apparently shoes had once
been seen as part of bracae 'trousers', really hanging together in
Roman leather leggins. The etymology of Latin bracae might become
simple in the light of Magdalenian BRI meaning fertile. Fertility and
breaking are linked in a certain way. Break a twig from a tree, plant
it, and if you are lucky it grows into another tree (Norman soil is so
fertile that people said jokingly: plant a pencil and it grows). BRI
is also present in branching, one branch becoming two branches, one
twig a pair of twigs. Increasing numbers are a simple form of
fertility: One becomes Two, then Three, then Many. In that numerical
sense also fragment is a derivative of BRI, which is also present in
French briser 'break'. A robe is one single piece of cloth, and so is
bracae 'trousers', but they branch into a pair of tubes, each covering
one leg, therefore the plural both in bracae and in trousers (the
latter plural irritated me when in school). The words tentatively
interpreted so far would be akin to break in one way or another. A
French brogan as reason to close a road can hardly bee a shoe (unless
the Hollywood director who invented the killer tomato spent a holiday
in the Auvergne and planned a sequel he called Brogan the killer
shoe), so I stick to my assumption that it may be a boulder broken off
from a rocky slope and fallen on a road where it blocks the traffic -
broken Brocken brogan. (We have a Frenchman among us. He could write a couriel
courriel
Post by Franz Gnaedinger
to a tourist office in the Haute-Loire and ask for the meaning of brocan in
the local French usage.)
More mundanely, it might simply be a non-French word referring to somebody
called Brogan who has set up shop in the Loire.
There is a "Burton's gare" in Occitanie, presumably from
the name of somebody English speaking who took over the
train station when it closed to passengers
(there are still trains, though).
Come to that we have an O'Brady's Irish Pub across the road from where I live.
--
athel
Franz Gnaedinger
2017-12-01 08:30:03 UTC
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Post by Alan Smaill
More mundanely, it might simply be a non-French word referring to somebody
called Brogan who has set up shop in the Loire.
There is a "Burton's gare" in Occitanie, presumably from
the name of somebody English speaking who took over the
train station when it closed to passengers
(there are still trains, though).
But how do you explain that a brogan - not a Monsieur or Madame or
Mademoiselle Brogan - was the cause for closing a road?
Alan Smaill
2017-12-01 09:57:01 UTC
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Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Post by Alan Smaill
More mundanely, it might simply be a non-French word referring to somebody
called Brogan who has set up shop in the Loire.
There is a "Burton's gare" in Occitanie, presumably from
the name of somebody English speaking who took over the
train station when it closed to passengers
(there are still trains, though).
But how do you explain that a brogan - not a Monsieur or Madame or
Mademoiselle Brogan - was the cause for closing a road?
We don't know that "a brogan" was cause for the road closure. We don't
know what the sign said in French -- it's just the word brogan or Brogan
that was mentioned in the English report.
--
Alan Smaill
Franz Gnaedinger
2017-12-02 09:01:42 UTC
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Post by Alan Smaill
We don't know that "a brogan" was cause for the road closure. We don't
know what the sign said in French -- it's just the word brogan or Brogan
that was mentioned in the English report.
So what can a brogan be when it caused a road to be closed? A Mademoiselle
Brogan taking a sun bath, naked, causing a carambolage? A Monsieur Brogan
performing a rain dance, à poil, achieving the same? Or another Monsieur
Brogan having made an invention how to protect a road from falling stones,
a brogan, and so the road was closed temporarily for to install that brogan?
Or can it be a loan, as I explained, broken Brocken brogan?

Here again the original quote

"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."

The reason for the latest closure appeared to be something called a Brogan.

Meanwhile this thread is going definitely into a kafkaesk direction.
Alan Smaill
2017-12-04 12:11:39 UTC
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Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Post by Alan Smaill
We don't know that "a brogan" was cause for the road closure. We don't
know what the sign said in French -- it's just the word brogan or Brogan
that was mentioned in the English report.
So what can a brogan be when it caused a road to be closed?
We don't know that a brogan was the cause of a road closure.

For all we know, the sign said:
Route fermée accès piéton à chez Brogan par ici.
Post by Franz Gnaedinger
A Mademoiselle
Brogan taking a sun bath, naked, causing a carambolage? A Monsieur Brogan
performing a rain dance, à poil, achieving the same? Or another Monsieur
Brogan having made an invention how to protect a road from falling stones,
a brogan, and so the road was closed temporarily for to install that brogan?
Or can it be a loan, as I explained, broken Brocken brogan?
Full marks for imagination.
Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Here again the original quote
"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock....The
reason for the latest closure, according to the notice, appeared to be
something called a "Bogan", so I started looking for people with mullets
and black clothes. Then I realized the notice actually said "Brogan",
though I never did find out what it meant."
The reason for the latest closure appeared to be something called a Brogan.
Meanwhile this thread is going definitely into a kafkaesk direction.
"appeared to be".

Who knows???
--
Alan Smaill
Arnaud Fournet
2017-12-05 07:19:26 UTC
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Post by Alan Smaill
Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Post by Alan Smaill
We don't know that "a brogan" was cause for the road closure. We don't
know what the sign said in French -- it's just the word brogan or Brogan
that was mentioned in the English report.
So what can a brogan be when it caused a road to be closed?
We don't know that a brogan was the cause of a road closure.
Route fermée accès piéton à chez Brogan par ici.
The mystery thickens...
A.
Franz Gnaedinger
2017-12-06 09:20:18 UTC
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Post by Alan Smaill
Route fermée accès piéton à chez Brogan par ici.
Where did you get that from? It's not contained in the quote given by Ross
Clark. But if it is correct, the mystery is solved, and the answer quite
trivial. On the other hand, it's funny how a missing element, an incomplete
quote in the given case, can raise big questions and fill a valley with fog,
as it were.
Alan Smaill
2017-12-06 20:28:38 UTC
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Post by Franz Gnaedinger
Post by Alan Smaill
Route fermée accès piéton à chez Brogan par ici.
Where did you get that from? It's not contained in the quote given by Ross
Clark. But if it is correct, the mystery is solved, and the answer quite
trivial. On the other hand, it's funny how a missing element, an incomplete
quote in the given case, can raise big questions and fill a valley with fog,
as it were.
I just made it up ("for all we know").
There's just not enough to go on, I agree.
--
Alan Smaill
Daud Deden
2017-11-30 14:30:36 UTC
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"But just as we were approaching the chateau...we came to a roadblock.." brogan

blockage?
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