Discussion:
The Boy Linguist Researches "Kemo Sabe"
(too old to reply)
Joseph W. Murphy
2005-04-18 01:32:34 UTC
Permalink
Last night on The History Channel I saw "Windtalkers," a horrible movie,
well worth missing, starring Nicholas Cage. It was supposedly based upon
the codetalking Navajo radiomen of World War II. David Kahn, the author of
"The Codebreakers" was on during commercial breaks to comment on the Navajo
code itself and its origins. He didn't really have much to say. Once there
was a flash at the bottom of the screen that said something like "Navajo is
one of the hardest languages in the world to learn!"

Anyway, towards the close of this moving opus, around the time Nicholas Cage
dies while reciting the Hail Mary with his Navajo charge, Ben, there is a
cut-away shot to Navajos speaking over the radio in code to one another. As
they speak, their words are then transliterated into characters on the
screen and amazingly, there among them, are the immortal words -- "Kemo
sabe"

Yes, that's right...I'm not kidding! "Kemo sabe"... the very words that The
Lone Ranger's faithful Indian companion, Tonto, used to say so often and
endearingly when giving advice to his friend, the daring and resourceful
masked rider of the plains! I was amazed! I wondered, is "Kemo Sabe" a
Navajo expression?

Inspired (not so much by Nicholas Cage's moving death, but rather by the
boyhood memories of all those Lone Ranger TV episodes I used to watch on
Saturday mornings), I decided to do a Google search to ascertain the true
meaning of "Kemo sabe". The fruits of my research are now summarized below:

1. A certain Dr. Goddard, of the Smithsonian Institution, has reportedly
speculated that the words "Kemo Sabe" come from Tewa, with "Sabe" meaning
"Apache" and "Kemo" meaning "Friend". So, according to Goddard, the Lone
Ranger was either a friend to the Apaches in Tonto's eyes or, perhaps,
simply, an "Apache friend". Friends to Apaches and Friendly Apaches were
both rare commodities in those thrilling days of yesteryear, so I have
discounted both Dr. Goddard and this theory.

2. Another scholar speculates that Kemo Sabe comes from Yavapai and means
"one who is white". The Yavapai word is supposedly "Kinmasabe". The
thinking is that the "whiteness" of this appellation derives from the fact
that in his early days The Lone Ranger always wore a white shirt and white
trousers. Of course Tonto could also have been referring to The Lone Ranger
as "White Man", but given their long-standing friendship I think it
unlikely. Would Tonto use "Paleface" or "White Eye" as a term of endearment
to a friend? Fat chance! On to the next theory!

3. A grad student in linguistics at Stanford thinks that "Kemo Sabe" may
come from Minnesota Ojibwe. His theory is that it stems from "giimoozaabi"
meaning "he who peeks". Apparently in Ojibwe there are several words with
the prefix "giimooj" meaning "secretly". Thus a "giimozaabi" is "one who
peeks in secret". The grad student, one Rob Malouf, thinks that the word
could be interpreted as meaning "scout". This theory, of course, is
laughable. Giimozaabi is more likely to mean "Peeping Tom" than "Scout".
Besides, Tonto's horse, as you true fans of the show may remember, was named
"Scout". Why then would Tonto refer to his horse, in English, as "Scout"
when he could just as easily, and naturally, have called his horse
"Giimozaabi". I distinctly recall Tonto saying "Get um up, Scout" many
times. Besides, what would a Minnesota Ojibwe be doing in the dusty
Southwest where The Lone Ranger was fighting lawlessness? Next we'll hear
that The Lone Ranger was a Swedish Lutheran. Another theory for the
dustbin!

4. In Navajo, "Kemo Sabe" supposedly means "Soggy Shrub". I can see Tonto
as a Navajo. And I definitely saw and heard the Navajo codetalkers say
"Kemo Sabe" last night in the movie. But why would Tonto be calling The
Lone Ranger "Soggy Shrub"? Why would Navajo codetalkers even be talking
about a "Soggy Shrub" (unless it was some kind of code to further baffle the
Japanese)? This theory perplexes me the most. I'd like to believe that "Kemo
Sabe" is really Navajo. But why would Tonto call The Lone Ranger "Soggy
Shrub"?

5. Some suspect that "Kemo Sabe" is from Mexican Spanish "Quien no sabe"
("The one who knows nothing"). The adherents to this theory see "Tonto"
(the name which The Lone Ranger uses for his faithful Indian companion and
which means "stupid" in Spanish) using "Quien No Sabe" as a pejorative
sobriquet for The Lone Ranger in an apparent act of revenge. No way, José!

6. Jim Jewell, who directed "The Lone Ranger" until 1938 supposedly once
said that he stole the term "Kemo Sabe" from the name of a boy's camp that
was once located at Mullet Lake, just south of Mackinac, Michigan. The camp
was named "Kamp Kee-Mo Sah-Bee". According to Jewell the translation of the
camp's name was "trusty scout".
In this regard, see #3 above and "Giimoozaabi". I refuse to believe this.
First, as we have seen, "Giimoozaabi" doesn't mean "trust scout". It means
"Peeping Tom". Also, I refuse to believe that Jay Silverheels (who played
Tonto on The Lone Ranger TV Show) would mouth the hallowed name of some
Michigan boy's camp as a term of endearment for his dear friend, The Lone
Ranger. It just can't be true!

So, there you have it. There remains no definitive answer to the nagging
and mysterious question of the meaning of "Kemo Sabe". I offer it now to
the linguists of sci.lang as another puzzling area of inquiry -- something
else to ponder along with The Phaistos Disk, The Voynich Manuscript, and
other equally baffling linguistic conundrums.

Joe Murphy
Boy Linguist (Hi-Yo Silver, Away!)
Peter T. Daniels
2005-04-18 03:36:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Last night on The History Channel I saw "Windtalkers," a horrible movie,
well worth missing, starring Nicholas Cage. It was supposedly based upon
the codetalking Navajo radiomen of World War II. David Kahn, the author of
"The Codebreakers" was on during commercial breaks to comment on the Navajo
code itself and its origins. He didn't really have much to say. Once there
was a flash at the bottom of the screen that said something like "Navajo is
one of the hardest languages in the world to learn!"
Anyway, towards the close of this moving opus, around the time Nicholas Cage
dies while reciting the Hail Mary with his Navajo charge, Ben, there is a
cut-away shot to Navajos speaking over the radio in code to one another. As
they speak, their words are then transliterated into characters on the
screen and amazingly, there among them, are the immortal words -- "Kemo
sabe"
Yes, that's right...I'm not kidding! "Kemo sabe"... the very words that The
Lone Ranger's faithful Indian companion, Tonto, used to say so often and
endearingly when giving advice to his friend, the daring and resourceful
masked rider of the plains! I was amazed! I wondered, is "Kemo Sabe" a
Navajo expression?
Inspired (not so much by Nicholas Cage's moving death, but rather by the
boyhood memories of all those Lone Ranger TV episodes I used to watch on
Saturday mornings), I decided to do a Google search to ascertain the true
1. A certain Dr. Goddard, of the Smithsonian Institution, has reportedly
speculated that the words "Kemo Sabe" come from Tewa, with "Sabe" meaning
"Apache" and "Kemo" meaning "Friend". So, according to Goddard, the Lone
Ranger was either a friend to the Apaches in Tonto's eyes or, perhaps,
simply, an "Apache friend". Friends to Apaches and Friendly Apaches were
both rare commodities in those thrilling days of yesteryear, so I have
discounted both Dr. Goddard and this theory.
That would be Ives Goddard, one of the most distinguished linguists of
American languages still living. (So was his father, Pliny Earle
Goddard.)
--
Peter T. Daniels ***@att.net
Joseph W. Murphy
2005-04-18 04:40:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
1. A certain Dr. Goddard, of the Smithsonian Institution, has reportedly
speculated that the words "Kemo Sabe" come from Tewa, with "Sabe" meaning
"Apache" and "Kemo" meaning "Friend". So, according to Goddard, the Lone
Ranger was either a friend to the Apaches in Tonto's eyes or, perhaps,
simply, an "Apache friend". Friends to Apaches and Friendly Apaches were
both rare commodities in those thrilling days of yesteryear, so I have
discounted both Dr. Goddard and this theory.
That would be Ives Goddard, one of the most distinguished linguists of
American languages still living. (So was his father, Pliny Earle
Goddard.)
--
Wow. I'll not be so dismissive in the future. Anybody whose father is
named Pliny merits my respect! :-)
Actually I've heard of Dr. Goddard. My guess is that he was probably having
fun with "Kemo Sabe", just as I was.

I'm pretty sure the Tewa were peaceful Pueblo types -- not the sort of
Indians that you'd think would be out chasing bad guys in the early West.
Also, I wouldn't think the Tewa (assuming Tonto was a Tewa) would be partial
to Apaches. Not many other tribes were. If Kemo Sabe means "Apache Friend"
Tonto would probably be using it as an insult.
Oddly, in early radio episodes of The Lone Ranger, both Tonto _and_ The Lone
Ranger called each other "Kemo Sabe". Funny to think that they'd both be
calling one another "Friend of the Apache".

Stay tuned. I may do a disquisition on Yancey Derringer's Pawnee blood
brother Pa-Hoo-Kah-Tee-Wah and Daniel Boone's friend (played by Ed Ames),
Mingo. But that's long-term research. :-)

Joe Murphy
Boy Linguist
Peter T. Daniels
2005-04-18 13:11:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Stay tuned. I may do a disquisition on Yancey Derringer's Pawnee blood
brother Pa-Hoo-Kah-Tee-Wah and Daniel Boone's friend (played by Ed Ames),
Mingo. But that's long-term research. :-)
I never watched Westerns, so I don't know about those folks, but isn't
"Mingo" in James Fenimore Cooper? He was writing about the end of Mohawk
ascendancy, so his names should be from Iroquois languages.
--
Peter T. Daniels ***@att.net
Joseph W. Murphy
2005-04-18 13:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Stay tuned. I may do a disquisition on Yancey Derringer's Pawnee blood
brother Pa-Hoo-Kah-Tee-Wah and Daniel Boone's friend (played by Ed Ames),
Mingo. But that's long-term research. :-)
I never watched Westerns, so I don't know about those folks, but isn't
"Mingo" in James Fenimore Cooper? He was writing about the end of Mohawk
ascendancy, so his names should be from Iroquois languages.
--
Hmmm...I'm trying to remember a Mingo in Cooper but I'm coming up empty.
I remember Uncas but I can't think of the name of his father. I don't think
it was Mingo though.

For some reason I have the notion that the Ed Ames Mingo was a Delaware.

Interesting you brought up Cooper. Natty Bumpo, the "Hawkeye" of Cooper's
opus was the first of a long line of Whites with Indian buddies. I guess
The Last of the Mohicans spawned a whole genre of imitators, including The
Lone Ranger and Tonto.

Joe Murphy
Boy Linguist
Peter T. Daniels
2005-04-18 13:27:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Stay tuned. I may do a disquisition on Yancey Derringer's Pawnee blood
brother Pa-Hoo-Kah-Tee-Wah and Daniel Boone's friend (played by Ed Ames),
Mingo. But that's long-term research. :-)
I never watched Westerns, so I don't know about those folks, but isn't
"Mingo" in James Fenimore Cooper? He was writing about the end of Mohawk
ascendancy, so his names should be from Iroquois languages.
--
Hmmm...I'm trying to remember a Mingo in Cooper but I'm coming up empty.
I remember Uncas but I can't think of the name of his father. I don't think
it was Mingo though.
For some reason I have the notion that the Ed Ames Mingo was a Delaware.
Algonquian, then -- "Delaware" is the macro-language of the NYC area.
Oddly (it seems to me), there's a major isogloss within Delaware
dividing Long Island into east and west parts, and this isogloss is
operative up in Connecticut, too.

Algonquian extended all the way down to the Piedmont, but its southern
representatives (such as Powhatan) are all but unknown.
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Interesting you brought up Cooper. Natty Bumpo, the "Hawkeye" of Cooper's
opus was the first of a long line of Whites with Indian buddies. I guess
The Last of the Mohicans spawned a whole genre of imitators, including The
Lone Ranger and Tonto.
Cooper is unreadable -- compare his contemporary, Washington Irving, who
strikes me as the very first modern American writer. (More modern than
their other contemporary, Poe.)
--
Peter T. Daniels ***@att.net
Richard Herring
2005-04-18 13:58:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Stay tuned. I may do a disquisition on Yancey Derringer's Pawnee blood
brother Pa-Hoo-Kah-Tee-Wah and Daniel Boone's friend (played by Ed
Ames),
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Mingo. But that's long-term research. :-)
I never watched Westerns, so I don't know about those folks, but isn't
"Mingo" in James Fenimore Cooper? He was writing about the end of Mohawk
ascendancy, so his names should be from Iroquois languages.
Is Cooper regarded as a reliable informant in these circles? AIUI his
Indians owe more to his imagination, or at best second-hand information,
than to first-hand fact.
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Hmmm...I'm trying to remember a Mingo in Cooper but I'm coming up empty.
I remember Uncas but I can't think of the name of his father. I don't think
it was Mingo though.
For some reason I have the notion that the Ed Ames Mingo was a Delaware.
Interesting you brought up Cooper. Natty Bumpo, the "Hawkeye" of Cooper's
opus was the first of a long line of Whites with Indian buddies. I guess
The Last of the Mohicans spawned a whole genre of imitators, including The
Lone Ranger and Tonto.
Perhaps it's a shame that Twain didn't write a Fenimore Cooper parody,
instead of just savaging him in that famous essay.
--
Richard Herring
Joseph W. Murphy
2005-04-18 15:33:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Herring
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Stay tuned. I may do a disquisition on Yancey Derringer's Pawnee blood
brother Pa-Hoo-Kah-Tee-Wah and Daniel Boone's friend (played by Ed
Ames),
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Mingo. But that's long-term research. :-)
I never watched Westerns, so I don't know about those folks, but isn't
"Mingo" in James Fenimore Cooper? He was writing about the end of Mohawk
ascendancy, so his names should be from Iroquois languages.
Is Cooper regarded as a reliable informant in these circles? AIUI his
Indians owe more to his imagination, or at best second-hand information,
than to first-hand fact.
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Hmmm...I'm trying to remember a Mingo in Cooper but I'm coming up empty.
I remember Uncas but I can't think of the name of his father. I don't think
it was Mingo though.
For some reason I have the notion that the Ed Ames Mingo was a Delaware.
Interesting you brought up Cooper. Natty Bumpo, the "Hawkeye" of Cooper's
opus was the first of a long line of Whites with Indian buddies. I guess
The Last of the Mohicans spawned a whole genre of imitators, including The
Lone Ranger and Tonto.
Perhaps it's a shame that Twain didn't write a Fenimore Cooper parody,
instead of just savaging him in that famous essay.
--
Richard Herring
For anyone who hasn't read it, it's here:

http://users.telerama.com/~joseph/cooper/cooper.html

And it's hilarious!

Joe Murphy
Boy Linguist
Prai Jei
2005-04-18 17:50:23 UTC
Permalink
Joseph W. Murphy (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
3. A grad student in linguistics at Stanford thinks that "Kemo Sabe" may
come from Minnesota Ojibwe. His theory is that it stems from
"giimoozaabi" meaning "he who peeks".
He who peeks through the peepholes in his mask?
--
Paul Townsend
Pair them off into threes

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Joseph W. Murphy
2005-04-18 17:52:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Prai Jei
Joseph W. Murphy (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
3. A grad student in linguistics at Stanford thinks that "Kemo Sabe" may
come from Minnesota Ojibwe. His theory is that it stems from
"giimoozaabi" meaning "he who peeks".
He who peeks through the peepholes in his mask?
Well, maybe :-) Or, perhaps, "The Peeper"!

Joe Murphy
Boy Linguist
Dennis
2005-10-01 04:39:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Prai Jei
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
3. A grad student in linguistics at Stanford thinks that "Kemo Sabe"
may come from Minnesota Ojibwe. His theory is that it stems from
"giimoozaabi" meaning "he who peeks".
He who peeks through the peepholes in his mask?
I noticed this old post, and I know of this site which discusses it
at length:

http://spot.colorado.edu/%7Ekoontz/faq/etymology.htm#Kemosabe

Dennis
Joseph W. Murphy
2005-10-01 10:40:40 UTC
Permalink
Yes, t'was I. Thanks for the website.

"Hmmm. Wonder why he left this here silver bullet?"
--
Joe Murphy
Boy Linguist
Post by Dennis
Post by Prai Jei
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
3. A grad student in linguistics at Stanford thinks that "Kemo Sabe"
may come from Minnesota Ojibwe. His theory is that it stems from
"giimoozaabi" meaning "he who peeks".
He who peeks through the peepholes in his mask?
I noticed this old post, and I know of this site which discusses it
http://spot.colorado.edu/%7Ekoontz/faq/etymology.htm#Kemosabe
Dennis
Joseph W. Murphy
2005-10-01 11:31:13 UTC
Permalink
Hey, this is really a terrific website! A disquisition on the word "squaw";
the meaning of "Sacajawea" and "Cheyenne"...Wow! Neat.

I resurrected my old post on "Kemo Sabe" and in reviewing my research I note
that I concluded that "Kemo Sabe" came from the Navajo and meant "Soggy
Shrub".

Your website has caused me to now adopt the Potawatomie theory. I'm now on
board for "gimoozaabi" and "trusty scout". Although I'm not sure I buy into
Tonto as meaning "Frog". Unless, perhaps, he spoke French?

Joe Murphy
Boy Linguist
Post by Dennis
Post by Prai Jei
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
3. A grad student in linguistics at Stanford thinks that "Kemo Sabe"
may come from Minnesota Ojibwe. His theory is that it stems from
"giimoozaabi" meaning "he who peeks".
He who peeks through the peepholes in his mask?
I noticed this old post, and I know of this site which discusses it
http://spot.colorado.edu/%7Ekoontz/faq/etymology.htm#Kemosabe
Dennis
Joseph W. Murphy
2005-10-01 11:51:29 UTC
Permalink
In pulling my old "Kemo Sabe" research from Google's sci.lang repository I
note, as an aside, that it is now cross-referenced to sponsored links that
include "The Ugly Otter Trading Post" ("Indian Jewelry, 7 years on the
Web!), the "Native Indian Art Gallery" and a site advertising "Hand woven
Navajo rugs"
--
Joe Murphy
Boy Linguist
Peter T. Daniels
2005-10-01 14:57:56 UTC
Permalink
Why have you suddenly descended to top-posting?
--
Peter T. Daniels ***@att.net
Joseph W. Murphy
2005-10-01 15:16:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Why have you suddenly descended to top-posting?
--
Whoops! Sorry. My new mail program does it this way and I got careless. My
bad.

Joe Murphy

Boy Linguist
Richard Herring
2005-10-03 09:54:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Why have you suddenly descended to top-posting?
(Why have you suddenly descended to not quoting? ;-)

Well, it's (slightly) better than putting all his text in the
signature...
--
Richard Herring
Peter T. Daniels
2005-10-03 13:02:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Herring
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Why have you suddenly descended to top-posting?
(Why have you suddenly descended to not quoting? ;-)
Nothing relevant or top-ical.
--
Peter T. Daniels ***@att.net
Peter T. Daniels
2005-10-03 13:52:39 UTC
Permalink
Joe--

You sent me an email, and when I replied, it was rejected by some sort
of spamtrap that wants me to register via some complicated process to be
able to write to you. I should think that when someone writes to
someone, that someone would have made this someone's address welcome
through one's spamtrap!

If you post your message to the group, I'll post my answer here.
--
Peter T. Daniels ***@att.net
Joseph W. Murphy
2005-10-03 21:02:47 UTC
Permalink
--
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Joe--
You sent me an email, and when I replied, it was rejected by some sort
of spamtrap that wants me to register via some complicated process to be
able to write to you. I should think that when someone writes to
someone, that someone would have made this someone's address welcome
through one's spamtrap!
If you post your message to the group, I'll post my answer here.
--
Sorry:

Goofed and hit the personal reply rather than the group reply as I meant to.
Your response hit my Spamblocker (which requires me to add you to my address
book). Apologies for the foul up. Its this stupid newsreader I have. The
rotten part is I'm going to DSL soon and will probably have to deal with yet
another newsreader. Argh!

Joe Murphy
Boy Linguist
Richard Herring
2005-10-04 09:49:52 UTC
Permalink
In message <X%g0f.7665$***@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Joseph W. Murphy <***@mindspring.com> writes
[apparently nothing, because you managed to type it into the signature
block :-( ]
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Its this stupid newsreader I have. The
rotten part is I'm going to DSL soon and will probably have to deal with yet
another newsreader.
Why? The news client you use should be independent of the method of
delivery. If it speaks NNTP, it should work. Don't let your ISP fool you
into thinking that you have to use only the software they supply.

There are plenty of good free newsreaders out there: just go to
tucows.com and type "usenet" into the search box.
--
Richard Herring
Joseph W. Murphy
2005-10-04 11:47:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Herring
[apparently nothing, because you managed to type it into the signature
block :-( ]
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Its this stupid newsreader I have. The
rotten part is I'm going to DSL soon and will probably have to deal with yet
another newsreader.
Why? The news client you use should be independent of the method of
delivery. If it speaks NNTP, it should work. Don't let your ISP fool you
into thinking that you have to use only the software they supply.
There are plenty of good free newsreaders out there: just go to tucows.com
and type "usenet" into the search box.
--
Richard Herring
Thanks! I'll take a look. Any good ones you'd recommend?

Joe Murphy
Boy Linguist
Richard Herring
2005-10-04 12:48:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Post by Richard Herring
[apparently nothing, because you managed to type it into the signature
block :-( ]
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Its this stupid newsreader I have. The
rotten part is I'm going to DSL soon and will probably have to deal with yet
another newsreader.
Why? The news client you use should be independent of the method of
delivery. If it speaks NNTP, it should work. Don't let your ISP fool you
into thinking that you have to use only the software they supply.
There are plenty of good free newsreaders out there: just go to tucows.com
and type "usenet" into the search box.
Thanks! I'll take a look. Any good ones you'd recommend?
Depends too much on which features you can't live without, and I'm not
really on top of the latest developments.( I'm still using one which has
excellent filtering features but can't cope with Unicode, so is of
limited use in the sci.lang environment and I wouldn't recommend it to
new users.)

Mozilla Firefox is fairly good (especially in the multilingual
department, less so in filtering) and is still-evolving open-source
code, so you might be able to get your own requirements incorporated, or
even do it yourself.
--
Richard Herring
Richard Herring
2005-10-04 13:05:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Herring
Mozilla Firefox
Correction: I mean Mozilla _Thunderbird_
Post by Richard Herring
is fairly good (especially in the multilingual department, less so in
filtering) and is still-evolving open-source code, so you might be able
to get your own requirements incorporated, or even do it yourself.
--
Richard Herring
Joseph W. Murphy
2005-10-04 14:15:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Herring
Post by Richard Herring
Mozilla Firefox
Correction: I mean Mozilla _Thunderbird_
Post by Richard Herring
is fairly good (especially in the multilingual department, less so in
filtering) and is still-evolving open-source code, so you might be able to
get your own requirements incorporated, or even do it yourself.
--
Richard Herring
Thanks. I'll take a look at it.

Joe Murphy
Boy Linguist
Brian M. Scott
2005-10-04 18:41:43 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:47:31 GMT, "Joseph W. Murphy"
[...]
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Post by Richard Herring
There are plenty of good free newsreaders out there: just
go to tucows.com and type "usenet" into the search box.
Thanks! I'll take a look. Any good ones you'd recommend?
40tude Dialog is excellent and very easy to use, and it has
full Unicode support. I don't do any filtering, but it also
has extensive capabilities in that direction. Its only real
drawback is that it's a bit of a resource hog, so I wouldn't
use it on a really slow machine, and you do want to compact
the database fairly regularly.

<www.40tude.com/dialog/>

Brian
Joseph W. Murphy
2005-10-04 20:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Thanks, Brian!
--
Joe Murphy
Boy Linguist
Post by Brian M. Scott
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:47:31 GMT, "Joseph W. Murphy"
[...]
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Post by Richard Herring
There are plenty of good free newsreaders out there: just
go to tucows.com and type "usenet" into the search box.
Thanks! I'll take a look. Any good ones you'd recommend?
40tude Dialog is excellent and very easy to use, and it has
full Unicode support. I don't do any filtering, but it also
has extensive capabilities in that direction. Its only real
drawback is that it's a bit of a resource hog, so I wouldn't
use it on a really slow machine, and you do want to compact
the database fairly regularly.
<www.40tude.com/dialog/>
Brian
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
2005-10-04 21:11:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian M. Scott
40tude Dialog is excellent and very easy to use, and it has
full Unicode support. I don't do any filtering, but it also
has extensive capabilities in that direction. Its only real
drawback is that it's a bit of a resource hog, so I wouldn't
use it on a really slow machine, and you do want to compact
the database fairly regularly.
<www.40tude.com/dialog/>
I'll give it a try. Looks quite similar to and also handles e-mail like
what I'm used to (Agent), but with Unicode support.

--
Михаил Карраскер Видал
Dennis
2005-10-05 04:23:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian M. Scott
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:47:31 GMT, "Joseph W. Murphy"
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Post by Richard Herring
There are plenty of good free newsreaders out there: just
go to tucows.com and type "usenet" into the search box.
Thanks! I'll take a look. Any good ones you'd recommend?
40tude Dialog is excellent and very easy to use, and it has
full Unicode support. I don't do any filtering, but it also
has extensive capabilities in that direction. Its only real
drawback is that it's a bit of a resource hog, so I wouldn't
use it on a really slow machine, and you do want to compact
the database fairly regularly.
<www.40tude.com/dialog/>
I haven't seen 40tude, but I like Xnews:

http://xnews.newsguy.com/

It's simple, small, very easy to use, and has a very good user
interface. I like how it highlights replies to your posts in red. It is
very small so it won't cause resource problems on any machine.

I don't know about Unicode, but I don't think so. Here's the manual,
which is small.

http://xnews.newsguy.com/manual.html

Dennis

o8TY
2005-04-19 15:47:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
Last night on The History Channel I saw "Windtalkers," a horrible movie,
well worth missing, starring Nicholas Cage. It was supposedly based upon
the codetalking Navajo radiomen of World War II. David Kahn, the author of
"The Codebreakers" was on during commercial breaks to comment on the Navajo
code itself and its origins. He didn't really have much to say. Once there
was a flash at the bottom of the screen that said something like "Navajo is
one of the hardest languages in the world to learn!"
Anyway, towards the close of this moving opus, around the time Nicholas Cage
dies while reciting the Hail Mary with his Navajo charge, Ben, there is a
cut-away shot to Navajos speaking over the radio in code to one another.
As
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
they speak, their words are then transliterated into characters on the
screen and amazingly, there among them, are the immortal words -- "Kemo
sabe"
Yes, that's right...I'm not kidding! "Kemo sabe"... the very words that The
Lone Ranger's faithful Indian companion, Tonto, used to say so often and
endearingly when giving advice to his friend, the daring and resourceful
masked rider of the plains! I was amazed! I wondered, is "Kemo Sabe" a
Navajo expression?
Inspired (not so much by Nicholas Cage's moving death, but rather by the
boyhood memories of all those Lone Ranger TV episodes I used to watch on
Saturday mornings), I decided to do a Google search to ascertain the true
1. A certain Dr. Goddard, of the Smithsonian Institution, has reportedly
speculated that the words "Kemo Sabe" come from Tewa, with "Sabe" meaning
"Apache" and "Kemo" meaning "Friend". So, according to Goddard, the Lone
Ranger was either a friend to the Apaches in Tonto's eyes or, perhaps,
simply, an "Apache friend". Friends to Apaches and Friendly Apaches were
both rare commodities in those thrilling days of yesteryear, so I have
discounted both Dr. Goddard and this theory.
2. Another scholar speculates that Kemo Sabe comes from Yavapai and means
"one who is white". The Yavapai word is supposedly "Kinmasabe". The
thinking is that the "whiteness" of this appellation derives from the fact
that in his early days The Lone Ranger always wore a white shirt and white
trousers. Of course Tonto could also have been referring to The Lone Ranger
as "White Man", but given their long-standing friendship I think it
unlikely. Would Tonto use "Paleface" or "White Eye" as a term of endearment
to a friend? Fat chance! On to the next theory!
3. A grad student in linguistics at Stanford thinks that "Kemo Sabe" may
come from Minnesota Ojibwe. His theory is that it stems from
"giimoozaabi"
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
meaning "he who peeks". Apparently in Ojibwe there are several words with
the prefix "giimooj" meaning "secretly". Thus a "giimozaabi" is "one who
peeks in secret". The grad student, one Rob Malouf, thinks that the word
could be interpreted as meaning "scout". This theory, of course, is
laughable. Giimozaabi is more likely to mean "Peeping Tom" than "Scout".
Besides, Tonto's horse, as you true fans of the show may remember, was named
"Scout". Why then would Tonto refer to his horse, in English, as "Scout"
when he could just as easily, and naturally, have called his horse
"Giimozaabi". I distinctly recall Tonto saying "Get um up, Scout" many
times. Besides, what would a Minnesota Ojibwe be doing in the dusty
Southwest where The Lone Ranger was fighting lawlessness? Next we'll hear
that The Lone Ranger was a Swedish Lutheran. Another theory for the
dustbin!
4. In Navajo, "Kemo Sabe" supposedly means "Soggy Shrub". I can see Tonto
as a Navajo. And I definitely saw and heard the Navajo codetalkers say
"Kemo Sabe" last night in the movie. But why would Tonto be calling The
Lone Ranger "Soggy Shrub"? Why would Navajo codetalkers even be talking
about a "Soggy Shrub" (unless it was some kind of code to further baffle the
Japanese)? This theory perplexes me the most. I'd like to believe that "Kemo
Sabe" is really Navajo. But why would Tonto call The Lone Ranger "Soggy
Shrub"?
I like this one, especially as it contrasts with Burning Bush, which may
have also had a white stem..
Post by Joseph W. Murphy
5. Some suspect that "Kemo Sabe" is from Mexican Spanish "Quien no sabe"
("The one who knows nothing"). The adherents to this theory see "Tonto"
(the name which The Lone Ranger uses for his faithful Indian companion and
which means "stupid" in Spanish) using "Quien No Sabe" as a pejorative
sobriquet for The Lone Ranger in an apparent act of revenge. No way, José!
6. Jim Jewell, who directed "The Lone Ranger" until 1938 supposedly once
said that he stole the term "Kemo Sabe" from the name of a boy's camp that
was once located at Mullet Lake, just south of Mackinac, Michigan. The camp
was named "Kamp Kee-Mo Sah-Bee". According to Jewell the translation of the
camp's name was "trusty scout".
In this regard, see #3 above and "Giimoozaabi". I refuse to believe this.
First, as we have seen, "Giimoozaabi" doesn't mean "trust scout". It means
"Peeping Tom". Also, I refuse to believe that Jay Silverheels (who played
Tonto on The Lone Ranger TV Show) would mouth the hallowed name of some
Michigan boy's camp as a term of endearment for his dear friend, The Lone
Ranger. It just can't be true!
So, there you have it. There remains no definitive answer to the nagging
and mysterious question of the meaning of "Kemo Sabe". I offer it now to
the linguists of sci.lang as another puzzling area of inquiry -- something
else to ponder along with The Phaistos Disk, The Voynich Manuscript, and
other equally baffling linguistic conundrums.
Joe Murphy
Boy Linguist (Hi-Yo Silver, Away!)
Arnold Zwicky
2005-04-20 21:07:27 UTC
Permalink
... I decided to do a Google search to ascertain the true meaning
...3. A grad student in linguistics at Stanford thinks that "Kemo
Sabe" may come from Minnesota Ojibwe. His theory is that it stems
from "giimoozaabi" meaning "he who peeks". Apparently in Ojibwe
there are several words with the prefix "giimooj" meaning
"secretly". Thus a "giimozaabi" is "one who peeks in secret". The
grad student, one Rob Malouf, thinks that the word could be
interpreted as meaning "scout".
you should check dates when you google on things. malouf was last a
grad student at stanford in 1998. he's now an assistant professor of
linguistics at UC San Diego. he even has a website.

arnold
Loading...