Discussion:
Edith Piaf's trills sound similar to Italian
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Dingbat
2018-02-11 11:09:31 UTC
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Edith Piaf's trills sound similar to Italian strident trills

... even though hers must be uvular whereas the latter must be alveolar.

Can a casual observer tell whether an opera singer is French or Italian
from their trills? Or not?


Played at the Winter Olympics:

Edith Piaf singing "Under the skies of Paris" (translated song title)

Christian Weisgerber
2018-02-11 13:21:01 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
Edith Piaf's trills sound similar to Italian strident trills
... even though hers must be uvular whereas the latter must be alveolar.
You might want to examine that assumption.

Classical singing employs the alveolar trill even in those European
languages that use a type of uvular r in normal speech.
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Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
Ruud Harmsen
2018-02-12 11:59:01 UTC
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Sun, 11 Feb 2018 03:09:31 -0800 (PST): Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Edith Piaf's trills sound similar to Italian strident trills
... even though hers must be uvular whereas the latter must be alveolar.
Can a casual observer tell whether an opera singer is French or Italian
from their trills? Or not?
I certainly will can *), if the occasion arises. But I cannot remember
already having heard a uvular r in such contexts, although in French
chansons, it is of course very common.

By the way, some Italians also use a uvular r, although that is rare.
Post by Dingbat
Edith Piaf singing "Under the skies of Paris" (translated song title)
http://youtu.be/kouTi-0csLg
*) I know the verb 'can' cannot be used like that in English (it can
in Dutch and German). But would should I use instead if this is really
what I want to express?
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Ruud Harmsen
2018-02-12 12:03:34 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
*) I know the verb 'can' cannot be used like that in English (it can
in Dutch and German). But would should I use instead if this is really
what I want to express?
I will be able to (do that).
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Ruud Harmsen
2018-02-12 12:02:00 UTC
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Sun, 11 Feb 2018 03:09:31 -0800 (PST): Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Edith Piaf's trills sound similar to Italian strident trills
... even though hers must be uvular whereas the latter must be alveolar.
Can a casual observer tell whether an opera singer is French or Italian
from their trills? Or not?
Edith Piaf singing "Under the skies of Paris" (translated song title)
http://youtu.be/kouTi-0csLg
Compare Dalida:

--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Ruud Harmsen
2018-02-12 12:05:14 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
http://youtu.be/o2_gPkOdwDA


I have never heard this before, Dalida in Arabic, although I knew she
was of Eyptian/Italian descent.

Like Georges Moustaki (but Greek/Egyptian), who sang French without
any accent.
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Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Ruud Harmsen
2018-02-12 12:10:01 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
Post by Ruud Harmsen
http://youtu.be/o2_gPkOdwDA
http://youtu.be/7F2U_3DiJNY
I have never heard this before, Dalida in Arabic, although I knew she
was of Eyptian/Italian descent.
Even in Dutch!!! Never knew that.


Does not sound very well, nor genuine. I hardly even understand the
lyrics. Her Arabic sounds quite genuine and native to me, though.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
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