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Papuans in Brazil 11.5ka
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Daud Deden
2018-01-22 21:59:58 UTC
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Papuans in Brazil 11.5ka

http://www.pnas.org/content/102/51/18309.full new article

11.5ka Luzia et. al. at Lagoa Santa Karst rockshelters, unique morphology.

Near region of the "Melanesian" genetic trace:
(from 2015) http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/mysterious-link-emerges-between-native-americans-and-people-half-globe-away
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Luzia et al ancestors were from a SEAsian-Papuan group that used bark-canoes (from Sago palm processing) riding the north Pacific Gyre of the warm-water Kuroshio current going up the Pacific coast when Beringia blocked today's cold Arctic current, northeastward-eastward (south of Beringia) then southward to California & Honduras to the equator where they met the northflowing Antarctic current and landed.

AmerIndians arrived later via Mexico-North Dakota (cf. Mandan c.oracles)-Canada (between glacial massifs)-Beringia-Siberia, their landlubber journey had begun earlier in north Siberia. DD

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Let's track their linguistic journey & contacts, shall we?
Daud Deden
2018-01-22 22:41:41 UTC
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Post by Daud Deden
Papuans in Brazil 11.5ka
http://www.pnas.org/content/102/51/18309.full new article
11.5ka Luzia et. al. at Lagoa Santa Karst rockshelters, unique morphology.
(from 2015) http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/mysterious-link-emerges-between-native-americans-and-people-half-globe-away
-
Luzia et al ancestors were from a SEAsian-Papuan group that used bark-canoes (from Sago palm processing) riding the north Pacific Gyre of the warm-water Kuroshio current going up the Pacific coast when Beringia blocked today's cold Arctic current, northeastward-eastward (south of Beringia) then southward to California & Honduras to the equator where they met the northflowing Antarctic current and landed.
AmerIndians arrived later via Mexico-North Dakota (cf. Mandan c.oracles)-Canada (between glacial massifs)-Beringia-Siberia, their landlubber journey had begun earlier in north Siberia. DD
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Let's track their linguistic journey & contacts, shall we?
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- from my comment at West Hunter blog:

DD'eDeN January 22, 2018 at 2:13 pm

As I’ve stated elsewhere, bark-canoes (later log dugouts canoes) were invented in Papua (from Sago palm processing), logically some went north along coastal Asia following the coastal current. Beringia BLOCKED the north-south arctic cold currents (like those we currently have), so the Kuroshio-California warm currents (North Pacific swirling gyre) propelled Luzia et al’s ancestors eastwardly along Beringia’s southern coast onward to Alaska, California, Honduras to the equator where they met the northward Antarctic current and stopped. The next immigrants were Beringian landlubbers who started earlier but arrived later, who begot the AmerIndians & Na Dene etc.

My claim apparently passes genetic, architectural, linguistic, technological, migratory-least-cost-most-efficient voyage, testing as far as I can see. The original adze, the original flour pancake-flatbread, the oldest non-coracle boat, the "kelp highway" (not used by the landlubbers with their old-school wicker & yakskin kudru/ buffalo bull-boat coracles cf. Tibet & N. Dakota Mandan (between the 2 glacial massifs)). The evidence is there, my interpretation is logical. DD
DKleinecke
2018-01-23 00:55:34 UTC
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Post by Daud Deden
Papuans in Brazil 11.5ka
http://www.pnas.org/content/102/51/18309.full new article
11.5ka Luzia et. al. at Lagoa Santa Karst rockshelters, unique morphology.
(from 2015) http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/mysterious-link-emerges-between-native-americans-and-people-half-globe-away
-
Luzia et al ancestors were from a SEAsian-Papuan group that used bark-canoes (from Sago palm processing) riding the north Pacific Gyre of the warm-water Kuroshio current going up the Pacific coast when Beringia blocked today's cold Arctic current, northeastward-eastward (south of Beringia) then southward to California & Honduras to the equator where they met the northflowing Antarctic current and landed.
AmerIndians arrived later via Mexico-North Dakota (cf. Mandan c.oracles)-Canada (between glacial massifs)-Beringia-Siberia, their landlubber journey had begun earlier in north Siberia. DD
-
Let's track their linguistic journey & contacts, shall we?
-----
DD'eDeN January 22, 2018 at 2:13 pm
As I’ve stated elsewhere, bark-canoes (later log dugouts canoes) were invented in Papua (from Sago palm processing), logically some went north along coastal Asia following the coastal current. Beringia BLOCKED the north-south arctic cold currents (like those we currently have), so the Kuroshio-California warm currents (North Pacific swirling gyre) propelled Luzia et al’s ancestors eastwardly along Beringia’s southern coast onward to Alaska, California, Honduras to the equator where they met the northward Antarctic current and stopped. The next immigrants were Beringian landlubbers who started earlier but arrived later, who begot the AmerIndians & Na Dene etc.
My claim apparently passes genetic, architectural, linguistic, technological, migratory-least-cost-most-efficient voyage, testing as far as I can see. The original adze, the original flour pancake-flatbread, the oldest non-coracle boat, the "kelp highway" (not used by the landlubbers with their old-school wicker & yakskin kudru/ buffalo bull-boat coracles cf. Tibet & N. Dakota Mandan (between the 2 glacial massifs)). The evidence is there, my interpretation is logical. DD
But, so far as I can tell, not supported by anything resembling
evidence.
Daud Deden
2018-01-23 19:20:33 UTC
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Ross, nowhere did I say that Papuans used sago rinds for ocean-going watercraft.

'Crank' etymology: ?

DK, you already showed your 'expertise' on the Pirahã, now tell us all about Papuans:
b***@ihug.co.nz
2018-01-23 03:56:23 UTC
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Post by Daud Deden
Papuans in Brazil 11.5ka
http://www.pnas.org/content/102/51/18309.full new article
11.5ka Luzia et. al. at Lagoa Santa Karst rockshelters, unique morphology.
(from 2015) http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/mysterious-link-emerges-between-native-americans-and-people-half-globe-away
-
Luzia et al ancestors were from a SEAsian-Papuan group that used bark-canoes (from Sago palm processing) riding the north Pacific Gyre of the warm-water Kuroshio current going up the Pacific coast when Beringia blocked today's cold Arctic current, northeastward-eastward (south of Beringia) then southward to California & Honduras to the equator where they met the northflowing Antarctic current and landed.
AmerIndians arrived later via Mexico-North Dakota (cf. Mandan c.oracles)-Canada (between glacial massifs)-Beringia-Siberia, their landlubber journey had begun earlier in north Siberia. DD
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Let's track their linguistic journey & contacts, shall we?
Sorry, Paul Rivet was onto it nearly a century ago. Other cranks
have had a go in the meantime. I don't think you'll produce anything
more interesting.

The idea of putting to sea, let alone circumnavigating the Pacific, in
a dugout of Metroxylon wood, strikes me as laughable. But I'm not
an expert. I hope you'll try your scenario out on some archaeologists
and anthropologists, even if it passes all your "tests".
Daud Deden
2018-01-23 19:46:58 UTC
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Ross, what was Rivet's migration theory you speak of? Wiki has no details, and my French skill is too limited to read his book.

I specified route, method & motive, all aligned with present evidence and logical speculation. No-one that I'm aware of has done that.
b***@ihug.co.nz
2018-01-23 23:21:02 UTC
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Post by Daud Deden
Ross, what was Rivet's migration theory you speak of? Wiki has no details, and my French skill is too limited to read his book.
All he says in the 1925 paper (the only one I can readily get hold of)
is that there were migrations "by way of the islands", first by Australians
and later by Melanesians/Polynesians. He (and others) believed in
the migrations on the basis of physical and cultural resemblances.
In this paper he presents what he considers linguistic evidence, comparing
the Chon languages (Patagonia, Tierra del Fuego) with Australian, and
the Hokan group (mainly North American) with Oceanic.

I'd be polite enough not to call Rivet a crank; he was an anthropologist,
highly esteemed by his French colleagues. But he had no more clue than
the average crank about what linguistic evidence is. He compares basketfuls
of languages on either side and finds (unsurprisingly) random similarities.
Others before and since have done the same.
Post by Daud Deden
I specified route, method & motive, all aligned with present evidence and logical speculation. No-one that I'm aware of has done that.
Daud Deden
2018-01-25 15:57:03 UTC
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Ross, thanks. I came across an interesting blog while seeking Jess Tauber, Yahgan linguist and old acquaintance in geodesic architecture & spatial geometry.

http://www.untranslatable.org/words/mamihlapinatapai

I don't expect Chon(an) languages linked to Melanesian/Andamanese, but much more likely would be Yahgan, Pirahã, Surui(Melanesian DNA) & Beothuk, though probably only traces would have remained due to massive influence of AmerIndian genes & memes.

Some of the early Japanese (Jomon, Ainu) had the YAP gene as do Andamaners.

Dan Everett wrote of his main contact person in the Pirahã village having curly hair and complexiom different from others, which I assumed meant he had some recent African mixture, but possibly it could have come from ancient Melanesian genes.

If Rivet claimed Melanesians/Australians crossed the Pacific like later Polynesians, he was wrong. New World Melanesians were coastal foragers, not open-ocean sailors. The continental shelves were all emergent before 10ka: Sahul, Sunda, Japan, Beringia, unlike at post-glacial sea level rise.
b***@ihug.co.nz
2018-01-25 22:22:42 UTC
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Post by Daud Deden
Ross, thanks. I came across an interesting blog while seeking Jess Tauber, Yahgan linguist and old acquaintance in geodesic architecture & spatial geometry.
http://www.untranslatable.org/words/mamihlapinatapai
That's a nice site -- nice looking and so much more credible than
some of the "untranslatable" or "they have a word for it" rubbish
that floats around online and in books. They've gone to the trouble
of checking with credible sources (even a couple of people I know!),
and present clear and interesting linguistico/cultural explanations.

The name Jess Tauber is vaguely familiar, but I can't decide of they're
male or female, or what else they've done.
Daud Deden
2018-01-26 16:03:53 UTC
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Re. JT, he's from Jersey.
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Queensland: American

https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2018/01/researchers-discover-piece-of-america.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheArchaeologyNewsNetwork+(The+Archaeology+News+Network)&m=1#F4Bl8UtXst4xTxs4.97
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Trump declares Queensland "American Territory', establishes TRUMPLAND ESTATE military base, resort & casino, no immigrants allowed. (Fake News Today)
Daud Deden
2018-02-01 00:30:25 UTC
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Post by Daud Deden
Ross, what was Rivet's migration theory you speak of? Wiki has no details, and my French skill is too limited to read his book.
All he says in the 1925 paper (the only one I can readily get hold of)
is that there were migrations "by way of the islands", first by Australians
and later by Melanesians/Polynesians. He (and others) believed in
the migrations on the basis of physical and cultural resemblances.
In this paper he presents what he considers linguistic evidence, comparing
the Chon languages (Patagonia, Tierra del Fuego) with Australian, and
the Hokan group (mainly North American) with Oceanic.
I'd be polite enough not to call Rivet a crank; he was an anthropologist,
highly esteemed by his French colleagues. But he had no more clue than
the average crank about what linguistic evidence is. He compares basketfuls
of languages on either side and finds (unsurprisingly) random similarities.
Others before and since have done the same.
Post by Daud Deden
I specified route, method & motive, all aligned with present evidence and logical speculation. No-one that I'm aware of has done that.
--

There might be something to it. New paper shows genetic anomaly in southern South America:

Whole genome sequence of Mapuche-Huilliche Native Americans
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/01/24/252619

This article is quite technical as is indicated by the tone of the abstract. 

In their Admixture analysis, Vidal et al. detected differences between the Huilliche genomes and those of other Native American populations:

"We ran ADMIXTURE from K = 1 to K = 15 models.....Notably, a large component of the AMR ancestry in PEL, MXL, CLM and PUR populations (dark gray) is not present in HUI genomes (average = 0.5%) and is marginally represented in Chilean Latino individuals (average = 6.9%, compared with 76.2% in PEL, 42.9% in MXL, 25.6% in CLM and 13.5% in PUR samples). These results suggest that HUI individuals and the broader Chilean cohort derive this genetic component from shared Native American ancestors with low genetic representation in other admixed American populations.

mtDNA sequences of the Southern Cone populations nearly all belong to haplogroups C & D.  It is no surprise, then, that the mtDNA sequences of the Mapuche-Huilliche of this study also all belong to these two haplogroups, only:

"Analysis of mitochondrial DNA showed that all HUI individuals belong to the Native American haplogroups C and D, two of the major pan-continental founder haplogroups. The majority of genomes sequenced (7 out of 11) belong to the C1b haplogroup and 6 of them were assigned to the clade C1b13 (Additional file 1: Fig. S5a), which is a branch found mainly in the Southern Cone of South America between 38° and 42°S [15, 29]. While the other 4 individuals belong to the D haplogroup, 3 of them are in the D1g clade, which is found almost exclusively in the central-southern part of Chile and Argentina, and only one is in the D4h3a clade (Additional file 1: Fig. S5b), found mainly in the Southern Patagonia [15, 29]. These results are in agreement with the admixture data (K = 10, as described before) showing that the genetic component of the HUI cohort differs from the genetic component of other Native American populations living in the northern region of South America."
Daud Deden
2018-02-01 00:32:35 UTC
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Post by Daud Deden
Ross, what was Rivet's migration theory you speak of? Wiki has no details, and my French skill is too limited to read his book.
All he says in the 1925 paper (the only one I can readily get hold of)
is that there were migrations "by way of the islands", first by Australians
and later by Melanesians/Polynesians. He (and others) believed in
the migrations on the basis of physical and cultural resemblances.
In this paper he presents what he considers linguistic evidence, comparing
the Chon languages (Patagonia, Tierra del Fuego) with Australian, and
the Hokan group (mainly North American) with Oceanic.
I'd be polite enough not to call Rivet a crank; he was an anthropologist,
highly esteemed by his French colleagues. But he had no more clue than
the average crank about what linguistic evidence is. He compares basketfuls
of languages on either side and finds (unsurprisingly) random similarities.
Others before and since have done the same.
Post by Daud Deden
I specified route, method & motive, all aligned with present evidence and logical speculation. No-one that I'm aware of has done that.
--
Whole genome sequence of Mapuche-Huilliche Native Americans
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/01/24/252619
This article is quite technical as is indicated by the tone of the abstract. 
"We ran ADMIXTURE from K = 1 to K = 15 models.....Notably, a large component of the AMR ancestry in PEL, MXL, CLM and PUR populations (dark gray) is not present in HUI genomes (average = 0.5%) and is marginally represented in Chilean Latino individuals (average = 6.9%, compared with 76.2% in PEL, 42.9% in MXL, 25.6% in CLM and 13.5% in PUR samples). These results suggest that HUI individuals and the broader Chilean cohort derive this genetic component from shared Native American ancestors with low genetic representation in other admixed American populations.
"Analysis of mitochondrial DNA showed that all HUI individuals belong to the Native American haplogroups C and D, two of the major pan-continental founder haplogroups. The majority of genomes sequenced (7 out of 11) belong to the C1b haplogroup and 6 of them were assigned to the clade C1b13 (Additional file 1: Fig. S5a), which is a branch found mainly in the Southern Cone of South America between 38° and 42°S [15, 29]. While the other 4 individuals belong to the D haplogroup, 3 of them are in the D1g clade, which is found almost exclusively in the central-southern part of Chile and Argentina, and only one is in the D4h3a clade (Additional file 1: Fig. S5b), found mainly in the Southern Patagonia [15, 29]. These results are in agreement with the admixture data (K = 10, as described before) showing that the genetic component of the HUI cohort differs from the genetic component of other Native American populations living in the northern region of South America."
Per geneticist Gisele Horvat: "The majority of genomes sequenced (7 out of 11) belong to the C1b haplogroup..."

C1b - like Upward Sun River1 (The oldest AmerIndians via Beringia, now extinct)
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