Discussion:
Grave accent in italian dialects
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Antonio Marques
2016-12-13 18:32:39 UTC
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So I've been reading a bit of Camilleri recently and all I can say is
that I find him actually easier to understand than standard italian.
Sicilian lexicon, sound laws and idioms just feel closer to portuguese,
for whatever reason.
But there's one specific thing I don't get, and that's his use of grave
accent in some penultimate syllables, such as _Vigàta_ or _nirbùso_.
What is that supposed to convey? In both cases I think stress would end
up in the same place without an accent mark. I'm also not aware of any
special vowel quality that wants to be indicated that way. Does anyone
have a hint?
Thanks.
Pierre Jelenc
2016-12-13 19:40:18 UTC
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Post by Antonio Marques
So I've been reading a bit of Camilleri recently and all I can say is
that I find him actually easier to understand than standard italian.
Sicilian lexicon, sound laws and idioms just feel closer to portuguese,
for whatever reason.
Catalan, rather? Sicily was part of the kindom of Aragon.

Pierre
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Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
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Antonio Marques
2016-12-13 22:07:19 UTC
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Post by Pierre Jelenc
Post by Antonio Marques
So I've been reading a bit of Camilleri recently and all I can say is
that I find him actually easier to understand than standard italian.
Sicilian lexicon, sound laws and idioms just feel closer to portuguese,
for whatever reason.
Catalan, rather? Sicily was part of the kindom of Aragon.
I'm just saying that sicilian feels closer than italian; nothing implied
about other languages or why that may have come about.
Antonio Marques
2016-12-17 16:53:43 UTC
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Post by Antonio Marques
So I've been reading a bit of Camilleri recently and all I can say is
that I find him actually easier to understand than standard italian.
Sicilian lexicon, sound laws and idioms just feel closer to portuguese,
for whatever reason.
But there's one specific thing I don't get, and that's his use of grave
accent in some penultimate syllables, such as _Vigàta_ or _nirbùso_.
What is that supposed to convey? In both cases I think stress would end
up in the same place without an accent mark. I'm also not aware of any
special vowel quality that wants to be indicated that way. Does anyone
have a hint?
The tentative answer from the Italian Stack Exchange is that when
authors need to use words unknown to the general public they place
accent marks there to avoid misunderstanding - in common words,
penultimate and antepenultimate stress are not usually distinguished in
writing, so there is no clear expectation for uncommon words.
v***@gmail.com
2018-01-18 01:54:36 UTC
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Post by Antonio Marques
So I've been reading a bit of Camilleri recently and all I can say is
that I find him actually easier to understand than standard italian.
Sicilian lexicon, sound laws and idioms just feel closer to portuguese,
for whatever reason.
But there's one specific thing I don't get, and that's his use of grave
accent in some penultimate syllables, such as _Vigàta_ or _nirbùso_.
What is that supposed to convey? In both cases I think stress would end
up in the same place without an accent mark. I'm also not aware of any
special vowel quality that wants to be indicated that way. Does anyone
have a hint?
Thanks.
I see absolutely no reason why Vigàta and nirbùsu should be accented. Maybe it was thought that an Italian or other foreigner (non-Sicilian, that is) would somehow pronounce 'vígata' and nírbuso....'
"A porta da casa nova" - Sicilian or Portuguese? Would you believe BOTH?
I agree that Portuguese is more akin to Sicilian: for one thing, unaccented "o" is pronounced "u" in both languages, and one could probably find more phrases like the one in the above example.
Best regards
António Marques
2018-01-18 22:54:26 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Antonio Marques
So I've been reading a bit of Camilleri recently and all I can say is
that I find him actually easier to understand than standard italian.
Sicilian lexicon, sound laws and idioms just feel closer to portuguese,
for whatever reason.
But there's one specific thing I don't get, and that's his use of grave
accent in some penultimate syllables, such as _Vigàta_ or _nirbùso_.
What is that supposed to convey? In both cases I think stress would end
up in the same place without an accent mark. I'm also not aware of any
special vowel quality that wants to be indicated that way. Does anyone
have a hint?
Thanks.
I see absolutely no reason why Vigàta and nirbùsu should be accented.
Maybe it was thought that an Italian or other foreigner (non-Sicilian,
that is) would somehow pronounce 'vígata' and nírbuso....'
"A porta da casa nova" - Sicilian or Portuguese? Would you believe BOTH?
I agree that Portuguese is more akin to Sicilian: for one thing,
unaccented "o" is pronounced "u" in both languages, and one could
probably find more phrases like the one in the above example.
Best regards
Welcome!

Yes, after reading a lot more, I’ve only reinforced that impression. It
makes reading Sicilian (even ‘sicilian’) quite a treat.

The explanation I’ve had for the accents agrees with yours: unfamiliar
words are given with accents in order not to be ambiguous, whereas in
familiar words everyone in Italy knows where the stress falls.

Nni videmu!

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