Discussion:
Does Arabic have cerebral stops?
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Dingbat
2017-05-26 02:02:16 UTC
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Copying from alt.usage.english. My question has been answered; further
comments are welcome.
Does Arabic have cerebral stops?
Dictionary.com on my Android phone says about English word <rotl> that it
comes from Arabic [rat.l]. I don't know what they mean by t with an underdot
but it is a cerebral (aka retroflex) stop in Latinized Sanskrit in
The Indian Journal of the History of Science.
Underdot in Semitic studies refers to "emphatic" pronunciation. What that means
differs in different languages. In Arabic, it refers to pharyngealization.
(In Ethiopic it refers to glottalization, in Modern Aramaic it can indicate
"flat" articulation -- a really lousy term introduced by Irene Garbell,
contrasted with "plain"; in the ModAram languages that have it, it has
spread so that an entire > morpheme that had one "emphatic" consonant in it
is pronounced "flat". In Modrn Hebrew the emphatic stops have merged with the
ordinary stops t k, and the sibilant is ts.)
Semitic languages don't have retroflex consonants (what you so quaintly call
"cerebral" -- that term was abandoned more than a century ago, because
"cerebral" is an adjective for brain structure or function).
I retort: I've seen drum beats called visceral even though that is an adjective
for viscera.
AHD5 says that "rotl" is a weight unit used in the eastern Mediterranean area,
varying in different places from about 1 to 5 lbs. (0.5 to 2+ kg), and is
pronounced with the POT vowel. The Arabic may be a borrowing of Gk. _litre_.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-26 02:28:15 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
Copying from alt.usage.english. My question has been answered; further
comments are welcome.
Does Arabic have cerebral stops?
Dictionary.com on my Android phone says about English word <rotl> that it
comes from Arabic [rat.l]. I don't know what they mean by t with an underdot
but it is a cerebral (aka retroflex) stop in Latinized Sanskrit in
The Indian Journal of the History of Science.
Underdot in Semitic studies refers to "emphatic" pronunciation. What that means
differs in different languages. In Arabic, it refers to pharyngealization.
(In Ethiopic it refers to glottalization, in Modern Aramaic it can indicate
"flat" articulation -- a really lousy term introduced by Irene Garbell,
contrasted with "plain"; in the ModAram languages that have it, it has
spread so that an entire > morpheme that had one "emphatic" consonant in it
is pronounced "flat". In Modrn Hebrew the emphatic stops have merged with the
ordinary stops t k, and the sibilant is ts.)
Semitic languages don't have retroflex consonants (what you so quaintly call
"cerebral" -- that term was abandoned more than a century ago, because
"cerebral" is an adjective for brain structure or function).
I retort: I've seen drum beats called visceral even though that is an adjective
for viscera.
That's because they affect you in the gut. You literally feel the thumps and
vibrations inside you.
Post by Dingbat
AHD5 says that "rotl" is a weight unit used in the eastern Mediterranean area,
varying in different places from about 1 to 5 lbs. (0.5 to 2+ kg), and is
pronounced with the POT vowel. The Arabic may be a borrowing of Gk. _litre_.
Yusuf B Gursey
2017-05-26 08:07:54 UTC
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Dingbat on 5/26/2017 in
Post by Dingbat
Copying from alt.usage.english. My question has been answered; further
comments are welcome.
Does Arabic have cerebral stops?
Dictionary.com on my Android phone says about English word <rotl> that it
comes from Arabic [rat.l]. I don't know what they mean by t with an
underdot but it is a cerebral (aka retroflex) stop in Latinized Sanskrit
in The Indian Journal of the History of Science.
Underdot in Semitic studies refers to "emphatic" pronunciation. What that
means differs in different languages. In Arabic, it refers to
pharyngealization.
(In Ethiopic it refers to glottalization, in Modern Aramaic it can indicate
"flat" articulation -- a really lousy term introduced by Irene Garbell,
contrasted with "plain"; in the ModAram languages that have it, it has
spread so that an entire > morpheme that had one "emphatic" consonant in it
is pronounced "flat". In Modrn Hebrew the emphatic stops have merged with
the ordinary stops t k, and the sibilant is ts.)
Semitic languages don't have retroflex consonants (what you so quaintly call
"cerebral" -- that term was abandoned more than a century ago, because
"cerebral" is an adjective for brain structure or function).
I retort: I've seen drum beats called visceral even though that is an
adjective for viscera.
AHD5 says that "rotl" is a weight unit used in the eastern Mediterranean
raTl as well as riTl (older) ruTl may be colloquial.
Post by Dingbat
area, varying in different places from about 1 to 5 lbs. (0.5 to 2+ kg),
Wehr gives the following:

Egypt 449.28 g Saudi Arabia 462 g Tunisia 504 g Morroco 508 g Damascus
1.785 kg Beirut and Aleppo 2.566 kg
Post by Dingbat
and is pronounced with the POT vowel. The Arabic may be a borrowing of Gk.
_litre_.
Ancient Greek λίτρα (lítra)
Yusuf B Gursey
2017-05-26 08:30:05 UTC
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Dingbat on 5/26/2017 in
Post by Dingbat
Copying from alt.usage.english. My question has been answered; further
comments are welcome.
Does Arabic have cerebral stops?
Dictionary.com on my Android phone says about English word <rotl> that it
comes from Arabic [rat.l]. I don't know what they mean by t with an
underdot but it is a cerebral (aka retroflex) stop in Latinized Sanskrit
in The Indian Journal of the History of Science.
Curiously Urdu Perso-Arabic script indicates retroflex consonants with
a superscript Arabic emphatic T . Pashto and Perso-Arabic script Sindhi
use different devices.
Post by Dingbat
Underdot in Semitic studies refers to "emphatic" pronunciation. What that
means differs in different languages. In Arabic, it refers to
pharyngealization.
In Afro-Asiatic Berber has pharyngealized consonants.

Hausa (Chadic) has glottalized and implosive consonants
represented in Arabic script with emphatics.


Somali (Cushitic) has a retroflex d which can also be implosive and
when using Arabic script is represented bt emphatic T
Post by Dingbat
(In Ethiopic it refers to glottalization, in Modern Aramaic it can indicate
"flat" articulation -- a really lousy term introduced by Irene Garbell,
contrasted with "plain"; in the ModAram languages that have it, it has
spread so that an entire > morpheme that had one "emphatic" consonant in it
is pronounced "flat". In Modrn Hebrew the emphatic stops have merged with
the ordinary stops t k, and the sibilant is ts.)
Semitic languages don't have retroflex consonants (what you so quaintly call
"cerebral" -- that term was abandoned more than a century ago, because
"cerebral" is an adjective for brain structure or function).
I retort: I've seen drum beats called visceral even though that is an
adjective for viscera.
AHD5 says that "rotl" is a weight unit used in the eastern Mediterranean
area, varying in different places from about 1 to 5 lbs. (0.5 to 2+ kg),
and is pronounced with the POT vowel. The Arabic may be a borrowing of Gk.
_litre_.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-26 13:41:30 UTC
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Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Dingbat on 5/26/2017 in
Post by Dingbat
Copying from alt.usage.english. My question has been answered; further
comments are welcome.
Does Arabic have cerebral stops?
Dictionary.com on my Android phone says about English word <rotl> that it
comes from Arabic [rat.l]. I don't know what they mean by t with an
underdot but it is a cerebral (aka retroflex) stop in Latinized Sanskrit
in The Indian Journal of the History of Science.
Curiously Urdu Perso-Arabic script indicates retroflex consonants with
a superscript Arabic emphatic T . Pashto and Perso-Arabic script Sindhi
use different devices.
Sindhi has by far the largest inventory of consonants in the Arabic-writing
sphere -- I've said that it stretched the phonetic-dotting system beyond the
breaking point: for some features there's no uniformity at all in how they're
indicated.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by Dingbat
Underdot in Semitic studies refers to "emphatic" pronunciation. What that
means differs in different languages. In Arabic, it refers to
pharyngealization.
In Afro-Asiatic Berber has pharyngealized consonants.
Hausa (Chadic) has glottalized and implosive consonants
represented in Arabic script with emphatics.
Somali (Cushitic) has a retroflex d which can also be implosive and
when using Arabic script is represented bt emphatic T
Somali is normally written with Roman script.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by Dingbat
(In Ethiopic it refers to glottalization, in Modern Aramaic it can indicate
"flat" articulation -- a really lousy term introduced by Irene Garbell,
contrasted with "plain"; in the ModAram languages that have it, it has
spread so that an entire > morpheme that had one "emphatic" consonant in it
is pronounced "flat". In Modrn Hebrew the emphatic stops have merged with
the ordinary stops t k, and the sibilant is ts.)
Semitic languages don't have retroflex consonants (what you so quaintly call
"cerebral" -- that term was abandoned more than a century ago, because
"cerebral" is an adjective for brain structure or function).
I retort: I've seen drum beats called visceral even though that is an
adjective for viscera.
AHD5 says that "rotl" is a weight unit used in the eastern Mediterranean
area, varying in different places from about 1 to 5 lbs. (0.5 to 2+ kg),
and is pronounced with the POT vowel. The Arabic may be a borrowing of Gk.
_litre_.
Yusuf B Gursey
2017-05-26 13:51:14 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Dingbat on 5/26/2017 in
Post by Dingbat
Copying from alt.usage.english. My question has been answered; further
comments are welcome.
Does Arabic have cerebral stops?
Dictionary.com on my Android phone says about English word <rotl> that it
comes from Arabic [rat.l]. I don't know what they mean by t with an
underdot but it is a cerebral (aka retroflex) stop in Latinized Sanskrit
in The Indian Journal of the History of Science.
Curiously Urdu Perso-Arabic script indicates retroflex consonants with
a superscript Arabic emphatic T . Pashto and Perso-Arabic script Sindhi
use different devices.
Sindhi has by far the largest inventory of consonants in the Arabic-writing
sphere -- I've said that it stretched the phonetic-dotting system beyond the
breaking point: for some features there's no uniformity at all in how they're
indicated.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by Dingbat
Underdot in Semitic studies refers to "emphatic" pronunciation. What that
means differs in different languages. In Arabic, it refers to
pharyngealization.
In Afro-Asiatic Berber has pharyngealized consonants.
Hausa (Chadic) has glottalized and implosive consonants
represented in Arabic script with emphatics.
Somali (Cushitic) has a retroflex d which can also be implosive and
when using Arabic script is represented bt emphatic T
Somali is normally written with Roman script.
Yes, but there is a tradition of Arabic based writing known
as Wadaad's Script and there was once an attempt to promote it.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by Dingbat
(In Ethiopic it refers to glottalization, in Modern Aramaic it can indicate
"flat" articulation -- a really lousy term introduced by Irene Garbell,
contrasted with "plain"; in the ModAram languages that have it, it has
spread so that an entire > morpheme that had one "emphatic" consonant in it
is pronounced "flat". In Modrn Hebrew the emphatic stops have merged with
the ordinary stops t k, and the sibilant is ts.)
Semitic languages don't have retroflex consonants (what you so quaintly call
"cerebral" -- that term was abandoned more than a century ago, because
"cerebral" is an adjective for brain structure or function).
I retort: I've seen drum beats called visceral even though that is an
adjective for viscera.
AHD5 says that "rotl" is a weight unit used in the eastern Mediterranean
area, varying in different places from about 1 to 5 lbs. (0.5 to 2+ kg),
and is pronounced with the POT vowel. The Arabic may be a borrowing of Gk.
_litre_.
Dingbat
2017-05-26 19:19:57 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Dingbat on 5/26/2017 in
Post by Dingbat
Copying from alt.usage.english. My question has been answered; further
comments are welcome.
Does Arabic have cerebral stops?
Dictionary.com on my Android phone says about English word <rotl> that it
comes from Arabic [rat.l]. I don't know what they mean by t with an
underdot but it is a cerebral (aka retroflex) stop in Latinized Sanskrit
in The Indian Journal of the History of Science.
Curiously Urdu Perso-Arabic script indicates retroflex consonants with
a superscript Arabic emphatic T . Pashto and Perso-Arabic script Sindhi
use different devices.
Sindhi has by far the largest inventory of consonants in the Arabic-writing
sphere -- I've said that it stretched the phonetic-dotting system beyond the
breaking point: for some features there's no uniformity at all in how they're
indicated.
British administrators in Sindh were expected to master the language in 6
months well enough to use it for administration. I'm surprised that this
didn't cause a standard orthography to be established.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by Dingbat
Underdot in Semitic studies refers to "emphatic" pronunciation. What that
means differs in different languages. In Arabic, it refers to
pharyngealization.
In Afro-Asiatic Berber has pharyngealized consonants.
Hausa (Chadic) has glottalized and implosive consonants
represented in Arabic script with emphatics.
Somali (Cushitic) has a retroflex d which can also be implosive and
when using Arabic script is represented bt emphatic T
Somali is normally written with Roman script.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by Dingbat
(In Ethiopic it refers to glottalization, in Modern Aramaic it can indicate
"flat" articulation -- a really lousy term introduced by Irene Garbell,
contrasted with "plain"; in the ModAram languages that have it, it has
spread so that an entire > morpheme that had one "emphatic" consonant in it
is pronounced "flat". In Modrn Hebrew the emphatic stops have merged with
the ordinary stops t k, and the sibilant is ts.)
Semitic languages don't have retroflex consonants (what you so quaintly call
"cerebral" -- that term was abandoned more than a century ago, because
"cerebral" is an adjective for brain structure or function).
I retort: I've seen drum beats called visceral even though that is an
adjective for viscera.
AHD5 says that "rotl" is a weight unit used in the eastern Mediterranean
area, varying in different places from about 1 to 5 lbs. (0.5 to 2+ kg),
and is pronounced with the POT vowel. The Arabic may be a borrowing of Gk.
_litre_.
Yusuf B Gursey
2017-05-26 21:36:09 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Dingbat on 5/26/2017 in
Post by Dingbat
Copying from alt.usage.english. My question has been answered; further
comments are welcome.
Does Arabic have cerebral stops?
Dictionary.com on my Android phone says about English word <rotl> that it
comes from Arabic [rat.l]. I don't know what they mean by t with an
underdot but it is a cerebral (aka retroflex) stop in Latinized Sanskrit
in The Indian Journal of the History of Science.
Curiously Urdu Perso-Arabic script indicates retroflex consonants with
a superscript Arabic emphatic T . Pashto and Perso-Arabic script Sindhi
use different devices.
Sindhi has by far the largest inventory of consonants in the Arabic-writing
sphere -- I've said that it stretched the phonetic-dotting system beyond the
breaking point: for some features there's no uniformity at all in how they're
indicated.
British administrators in Sindh were expected to master the language in 6
months well enough to use it for administration. I'm surprised that this
didn't cause a standard orthography to be established.
Neither I nor Peter T. Daniels said or implied that Sindhi
orthography in Perso-Arabic script has not been standarized.
But there is no feature or device that indicates retroflexion
or aspiration. In Urdu orthography OTOH a superscript emphatic
T is present in all rertoflex consonants distinguished and a
specal calligraphic <h> is used to indicate aspiration. In
Sindhi Perso-Arabic there are no simple, consistent way to know
if a retoflex or aspirated phoneme is indicated by a particular
letter. You have to memorize the arrangement of dots for each
case seperately.
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by Dingbat
Underdot in Semitic studies refers to "emphatic" pronunciation. What that
means differs in different languages. In Arabic, it refers to
pharyngealization.
In Afro-Asiatic Berber has pharyngealized consonants.
Hausa (Chadic) has glottalized and implosive consonants
represented in Arabic script with emphatics.
Somali (Cushitic) has a retroflex d which can also be implosive and
when using Arabic script is represented bt emphatic T
Somali is normally written with Roman script.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by Dingbat
(In Ethiopic it refers to glottalization, in Modern Aramaic it can indicate
"flat" articulation -- a really lousy term introduced by Irene Garbell,
contrasted with "plain"; in the ModAram languages that have it, it has
spread so that an entire > morpheme that had one "emphatic" consonant in it
is pronounced "flat". In Modrn Hebrew the emphatic stops have merged with
the ordinary stops t k, and the sibilant is ts.)
Semitic languages don't have retroflex consonants (what you so quaintly call
"cerebral" -- that term was abandoned more than a century ago, because
"cerebral" is an adjective for brain structure or function).
I retort: I've seen drum beats called visceral even though that is an
adjective for viscera.
AHD5 says that "rotl" is a weight unit used in the eastern Mediterranean
area, varying in different places from about 1 to 5 lbs. (0.5 to 2+ kg),
and is pronounced with the POT vowel. The Arabic may be a borrowing of Gk.
_litre_.
Ruud Harmsen
2017-05-28 05:24:38 UTC
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Thu, 25 May 2017 19:02:16 -0700 (PDT): Dingbat
Underdot in Semitic studies refers to "emphatic" pronunciation. What that means
differs in different languages. In Arabic, it refers to pharyngealization.
Or velarisation or a combination of both.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
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