Discussion:
In which languages are the ground floor and first floor different floors?
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Dingbat
2018-02-08 16:11:27 UTC
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In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.

In which other languages is this so?
António Marques
2018-02-08 19:55:29 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.
In which other languages is this so?
Every one?
Buildings seem to follow the bizarre computing practice of starting their
numberings with 0.
Ruud Harmsen
2018-02-08 21:24:13 UTC
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Thu, 8 Feb 2018 19:55:29 -0000 (UTC): António Marques
Post by António Marques
Post by Dingbat
In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.
In which other languages is this so?
Every one?
Buildings seem to follow the bizarre computing practice of starting their
numberings with 0.
Dutch, often:
-1
BG
2
3
etc.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Dingbat
2018-02-09 01:42:00 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
Thu, 8 Feb 2018 19:55:29 -0000 (UTC): António Marques
Post by António Marques
Post by Dingbat
In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.
In which other languages is this so?
Every one?
Buildings seem to follow the bizarre computing practice of starting their
numberings with 0.
-1
BG
2
3
etc.
I don't see a 1st floor listed here. Do you call no floor the 1st floor?
Ruud Harmsen
2018-02-09 07:19:22 UTC
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Thu, 8 Feb 2018 17:42:00 -0800 (PST): Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Thu, 8 Feb 2018 19:55:29 -0000 (UTC): António Marques
Post by António Marques
Post by Dingbat
In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.
In which other languages is this so?
Every one?
Buildings seem to follow the bizarre computing practice of starting their
numberings with 0.
-1
BG
2
3
etc.
I don't see a 1st floor listed here. Do you call no floor the 1st floor?
Sometimes. BG = begane grond = soil that you walk on = rez de
chaussée.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Dingbat
2018-02-09 07:25:05 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
Thu, 8 Feb 2018 17:42:00 -0800 (PST): Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Thu, 8 Feb 2018 19:55:29 -0000 (UTC): António Marques
Post by António Marques
Post by Dingbat
In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.
In which other languages is this so?
Every one?
Buildings seem to follow the bizarre computing practice of starting their
numberings with 0.
-1
BG
2
3
etc.
I don't see a 1st floor listed here. Do you call no floor the 1st floor?
Sometimes. BG = begane grond = soil that you walk on = rez de
chaussée.
--
Well, this claims that the European standard is the same as the British
standard. Is it correct for parts of Europe other than Nederland?
http://speakspeak.com/about-english/ground-floors-and-first-floors-in-british-and-american-english
Helmut Richter
2018-02-09 09:06:09 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
Well, this claims that the European standard is the same as the British
standard. Is it correct for parts of Europe other than Nederland?
In Germany, the ground floor is usually called "Erdgeschoß", and the
first floor is the next floor upwards:

common name bureaucratic name abbreviation

2. Stock 2. Obergeschoß 2 / 2. OG / OG2
1. Stock 1. Obergeschoß 1 / 1. OG / OG1
Erdgeschoß Erdgeschoß E / EG / 0
Keller Keller K / KG
1. Untergeschoß -1 / 1. UG / UG1 / U1
2. Untergeschoß -2 / 2. UG / UG2 / U2

where "1. Untergeschoß" is the same as "Keller" but is only used when
there is more than one level below the ground.

The word "Geschoß" /-o:s/ is written "Geschoss" /-Os/ in N-de. The word
"Obergeschoß" can be replaced by "Etage" /e'tA:Z@/. You hear also the
abbreviation OG /o'ge:/ in spoken language but only for business
buildings, not for homes.

Railway stations often have no well-defined "ground floor", e.g. when
they consist of a passage underground and a bridge with the tracks plus
a shopping mall at one or more levels. Then the level of the tracks
mostly gets number 0 and the rest numerically fitting positive or
negative values.
--
Helmut Richter
António Marques
2018-02-09 07:41:08 UTC
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Post by Ruud Harmsen
Thu, 8 Feb 2018 17:42:00 -0800 (PST): Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Thu, 8 Feb 2018 19:55:29 -0000 (UTC): António Marques
Post by António Marques
Post by Dingbat
In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.
In which other languages is this so?
Every one?
Buildings seem to follow the bizarre computing practice of starting their
numberings with 0.
-1
BG
2
3
etc.
I don't see a 1st floor listed here. Do you call no floor the 1st floor?
Sometimes. BG = begane grond = soil that you walk on = rez de
chaussée.
It’d never occurred to me that chaussée ~ calçada.
Christian Weisgerber
2018-02-09 12:36:20 UTC
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Post by António Marques
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Sometimes. BG = begane grond = soil that you walk on = rez de
chaussée.
It’d never occurred to me that chaussée ~ calçada.
It's obvious once you think about it. French has shifted ca > cha
and VlC > VuC, and the participle ending -ée is equivalent to -ada.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
António Marques
2018-02-09 15:44:33 UTC
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Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by António Marques
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Sometimes. BG = begane grond = soil that you walk on = rez de
chaussée.
It’d never occurred to me that chaussée ~ calçada.
It's obvious once you think about it. French has shifted ca > cha
and VlC > VuC, and the participle ending -ée is equivalent to -ada.
Yes, the phonetics is how I got there. I just had never had any occasion to
think where the word might come from.

Calçada means a cobbled, usually quite steep street. The name sounds like
it literally refers to the act of stones being cobbled into the ground, but
the french homologue suggests the derivation is ancient.
Arnaud Fournet
2018-02-10 07:11:37 UTC
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Post by António Marques
Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by António Marques
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Sometimes. BG = begane grond = soil that you walk on = rez de
chaussée.
It’d never occurred to me that chaussée ~ calçada.
It's obvious once you think about it. French has shifted ca > cha
and VlC > VuC, and the participle ending -ée is equivalent to -ada.
Yes, the phonetics is how I got there. I just had never had any occasion to
think where the word might come from.
Calçada means a cobbled, usually quite steep street. The name sounds like
it literally refers to the act of stones being cobbled into the ground, but
the french homologue suggests the derivation is ancient.
yes, calc- means "stone", does it not?
So calc-at- means "cobbled".
A.
Ruud Harmsen
2018-02-09 13:50:17 UTC
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Fri, 9 Feb 2018 07:41:08 -0000 (UTC): António Marques
Post by Ruud Harmsen
Post by Dingbat
I don't see a 1st floor listed here. Do you call no floor the 1st floor?
Sometimes. BG = begane grond = soil that you walk on = rez de
chaussée.
It’d never occurred to me that chaussée ~ calçada.
Rés do chão.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Ruud Harmsen
2018-02-08 21:23:33 UTC
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Thu, 8 Feb 2018 08:11:27 -0800 (PST): Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.
In which other languages is this so?
http://rudhar.com/writings/etagesia.htm
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Peter T. Daniels
2018-02-08 21:59:40 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.
How abut in India?
Post by Dingbat
In which other languages is this so?
A better question is, which is the original usage? Is the American usage, as so
often, more conservative, and at some points Brits took to thinking that a floor
at entry-level was unimportant and didn't deserve a number?
Daud Deden
2018-02-08 22:15:47 UTC
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In cultures where stilted structures were common, the ground floor was outside but perhaps penned-in for pigs & dogs (eg. China 8ka), greenways were tidal/seasonal floodplains.
Dingbat
2018-02-08 23:38:08 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Dingbat
In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.
How abut in India?
In English, and only English, AFAIK, the 1st floor is above the ground floor.
In Malayalam and other languages of India, AFAIK, the 1st floor is the ground
floor.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Dingbat
In which other languages is this so?
A better question is, which is the original usage? Is the American usage,
as so often, more conservative, and at some points Brits took to thinking
that a floor at entry-level was unimportant and didn't deserve a number?
This mentions the importance of 'storey' but I don't know that the word is
used enough to be important:

Another important word to consider here is storey. This word describes the
level (height) of a building and the total number of its floors.
http://speakspeak.com/about-english/ground-floors-and-first-floors-in-british-and-american-english
Alan Smaill
2018-02-09 11:22:32 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Dingbat
In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.
How abut in India?
Post by Dingbat
In which other languages is this so?
A better question is, which is the original usage? Is the American
usage, as so often, more conservative, and at some points Brits took
to thinking that a floor at entry-level was unimportant and didn't
deserve a number?
The White House has a "ground floor" distinct from the first floor:

http://www.whitehousemuseum.org/Floor0.htm
--
Alan Smaill
Adam Funk
2018-02-09 11:31:03 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Dingbat
In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.
How abut in India?
Post by Dingbat
In which other languages is this so?
A better question is, which is the original usage? Is the American usage, as so
often, more conservative, and at some points Brits took to thinking that a floor
at entry-level was unimportant and didn't deserve a number?
Interesting question. I'm sure multi-stor(e)y buildings were commonly
seen before the split.
--
Papa Hegel he say that all we learn from history is that we learn
nothing from history. I know people who can't even learn from what
happened this morning. Hegel must have been taking the long view.
---Chad C. Mulligan
Christian Weisgerber
2018-02-09 12:28:02 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.
In which other languages is this so?
I've always been told that this is the proper way to number floors
in German(y), but there is some confusion in practice.

German Wikipedia explains that there are two systems:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschoss_(Architektur)#Obergeschoss_(OG)

(1) First floor above ground floor.
Used “largely in Europe, Africa and Australia".

(2) First floor = ground floor.
Used “primarily in the USA, in the former Soviet Union, in Japan
and China” but “in Germany occasionally also used e.g. in the
region of Baden” and “was also very common in the German Democratic
Republic”. If the word “Etage” is used in German, rather than
“Geschoss” or “Stock”, it is primarily with this numbering,
despite “étage” in French being used like (1).
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber ***@mips.inka.de
Adam Funk
2018-02-09 20:21:49 UTC
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Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Dingbat
In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.
In which other languages is this so?
I've always been told that this is the proper way to number floors
in German(y), but there is some confusion in practice.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschoss_(Architektur)#Obergeschoss_(OG)
(1) First floor above ground floor.
Used “largely in Europe, Africa and Australia".
(2) First floor = ground floor.
Used “primarily in the USA, in the former Soviet Union, in Japan
and China” but “in Germany occasionally also used e.g. in the
region of Baden” and “was also very common in the German Democratic
Republic”. If the word “Etage” is used in German, rather than
“Geschoss” or “Stock”, it is primarily with this numbering,
despite “étage” in French being used like (1).
That last bit is quite bizarre!
--
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bootlegged music and films, questionable women, deep seated xenophobia
and amusing cats all together in the same place? --- Tom Belshaw
Helmut Richter
2018-02-09 23:17:24 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Christian Weisgerber
(2) First floor = ground floor.
Used “primarily in the USA, in the former Soviet Union, in Japan
and China” but “in Germany occasionally also used e.g. in the
region of Baden” and “was also very common in the German Democratic
Republic”. If the word “Etage” is used in German, rather than
“Geschoss” or “Stock”, it is primarily with this numbering,
despite “étage” in French being used like (1).
That last bit is quite bizarre!
And absolutely new to me. Whenever I hear that someone lives "in der
ersten Etage", I understand it as synonymous with "im ersten Stock". I
do not remember any misunderstandings.
--
Helmut Richter
Adam Funk
2018-02-13 10:55:50 UTC
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Post by Helmut Richter
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Christian Weisgerber
(2) First floor = ground floor.
Used “primarily in the USA, in the former Soviet Union, in Japan
and China” but “in Germany occasionally also used e.g. in the
region of Baden” and “was also very common in the German Democratic
Republic”. If the word “Etage” is used in German, rather than
“Geschoss” or “Stock”, it is primarily with this numbering,
despite “étage” in French being used like (1).
That last bit is quite bizarre!
And absolutely new to me. Whenever I hear that someone lives "in der
ersten Etage", I understand it as synonymous with "im ersten Stock". I
do not remember any misunderstandings.
I've seen "Etage" in print in German, but I don't think I've ever
heard it in the wild.
--
Now everybody's got advice they just keep on giving
Doesn't mean too much to me
Lots of people have to make believe they're living
Can't decide who they should be ---Boston
Dingbat
2018-02-10 11:10:57 UTC
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Post by Christian Weisgerber
Post by Dingbat
In UK English, the ground floor and first floor are different floors.
In which other languages is this so?
I've always been told that this is the proper way to number floors
in German(y), but there is some confusion in practice.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschoss_(Architektur)#Obergeschoss_(OG)
(1) First floor above ground floor.
Used “largely in Europe, Africa and Australia".
(2) First floor = ground floor.
Used “primarily in the USA, in the former Soviet Union, in Japan
and China” but “in Germany occasionally also used e.g. in the
region of Baden” and “was also very common in the German Democratic
Republic”. If the word “Etage” is used in German, rather than
“Geschoss” or “Stock”, it is primarily with this numbering,
despite “étage” in French being used like (1).
I read somewhere that in the Soviet Union, floor 0 was the basement.
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